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No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

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Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#61

Post by gmac »

kelnos wrote: post #26

When I was younger, reading about the history of Prohibition in the US, I thought it was completely bonkers. The idea that alcohol was even worth a ban, let alone whether such a ban could be enforced, was silly to me. But the more I read about stuff like this, the more I realize that alcohol isn't special among the various things we call "drugs". It's not good for your physical health, and "everything in moderation"…

> Alcohol should be no different, but the social and cultural pressure around it makes it different.

I don't think it's just that. I think it's also that (potentially in quite modest quantities) alcoholic drinks are an important part of/accompaniment to some cuisines, providing a balancing sweetness, acidity, and so on.

I find the idea of steak without a glass of robust red wine terribly disappointing. Seafood soup without a crisp white wine, ditto. Crêpes or galettes without dry cider ... the list goes on ...

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#62

Post by kjax »

gmac wrote: post #55
elliekelly wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was in Amsterdam just before Covid I went to the Heineken factory and they gave us samples of their Heineken 0.0 which is brewed entirely without alcohol rather than the usual “non-alcoholic” beer approach of brewing it and then removing the alcohol. It was surprisingly good! Unless you do a side by side comparison of the regular and the 0.0 I doubt you’d ever know. Tangentially related, I wish I could remembe…

"Tastes as good as regular Heineken" is not exactly high praise. :)

Heineken's domestic formula differs from the export formula (primarily due to the amount of hops added to the export formula, IIRC), which is covered on the tour. The domestic Heineken really is much better than the stuff we get in North America.

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#63

Post by wcoenen »

ivraatiems wrote: post #22

I need some more context in order to understand the actual risks being suggested here. I fall into the "low to moderate" drinking category described in the study. First, when we say 0.8% of gray matter, over what time period does that loss occur? The authors don't seem to know. Second, what sort of effects does losing, say, 1% of gray matter integrity have? Increased risk of stroke, seizure, etc.? Effects on intellec…

In spite of what the submission title seems to suggest, the study does not claim that they found a 0.8% loss of all gray matter for alcohol drinkers.

What they actually found is that of the total variance in the amount of gray matter, they could explain 0.8% of that variance by alcohol consumption.

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#64

Post by mettamage »

moshmosh wrote: post #53
bspammer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a hilarious mental image to me. Like people aren’t going to notice your full pint glass after 10 minutes of fake sipping. Why would you not just tell them you don’t drink? Also, alcohol is definitely really bad for you, but an occasional pub visit is hardly going to take years off your life.

I thought soda water (or sparkling mineral water) with lemon or lime was the official no-I'm-not-drinking-but-I-am-familiar-with-bars-and-don't-bug-me-about-it drink. Fake-sipping a beer would be bizarre.

That's news to me, IMO indeed a more fun alternative than drinking pure water. Thanks for mentioning it :)

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#65

Post by michaericalribo »

thnujmikk wrote: post #35
ivraatiems wrote: post #22

I need some more context in order to understand the actual risks being suggested here. I fall into the "low to moderate" drinking category described in the study. First, when we say 0.8% of gray matter, over what time period does that loss occur? The authors don't seem to know. Second, what sort of effects does losing, say, 1% of gray matter integrity have? Increased risk of stroke, seizure, etc.? Effects on intellec…

The study doesn't infer causality. It could just be that people who drink happen to belong to the same class of people who lose 0.8% of grey matter.

This is true, however, the sample size is quite large, they controlled for confounders, and they address the possibility that this is all a coincidence:

> Whilst we controlled analyses for all known confounders and were more thorough in this than any previously published study, we cannot exclude the possible of residual confounding. However, the sensitivity analyses estimated that unobserved confounding would need to be of a greater strength than any recognized observed confounder, including age and smoking, to obviate the association between alcohol and brain health, which seems implausible.

As an informal / heuristic argument, it seems practical to conclude there is some causal relationship.

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#66

Post by ivraatiems »

wcoenen wrote: post #63
ivraatiems wrote: post #22

I need some more context in order to understand the actual risks being suggested here. I fall into the "low to moderate" drinking category described in the study. First, when we say 0.8% of gray matter, over what time period does that loss occur? The authors don't seem to know. Second, what sort of effects does losing, say, 1% of gray matter integrity have? Increased risk of stroke, seizure, etc.? Effects on intellec…

In spite of what the submission title seems to suggest, the study does not claim that they found a 0.8% loss of all gray matter for alcohol drinkers. What they actually found is that of the total variance in the amount of gray matter, they could explain 0.8% of that variance by alcohol consumption.

That's an important qualifier, yes... but I think my questions still stand. In order to know how to change our behavior, we need to know what that additional variance means in terms of implications for one's health.

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#67

Post by akvadrako »

ivraatiems wrote: post #22

I need some more context in order to understand the actual risks being suggested here. I fall into the "low to moderate" drinking category described in the study. First, when we say 0.8% of gray matter, over what time period does that loss occur? The authors don't seem to know. Second, what sort of effects does losing, say, 1% of gray matter integrity have? Increased risk of stroke, seizure, etc.? Effects on intellec…

The studies I've read also suggest the grey matter may come back if the drinking is ceased; it might just be a water ratio adaption.

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#68

Post by c0nducktr »

sabellito wrote: post #49
flemhans wrote: post #2

Is there a safer alternative?

Well, there's this newish hangover-free thing: https://www.sentiaspirits.com/ Has some reviews floating around the internet: https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/22/alcohol-free-spirit-sentia-pr... The creator, David Nutt, has a long history of trying to bring attention to the problems alcohol brings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt

Does anyone know of a way to get this shipped to the USA?

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#69

Post by thatcat »

mettamage wrote: post #29
ProAm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dancing is bad for the knees and music is bad for hearing loss...

You can buy earplugs specifically made for music. I recommend to actually tailor make them for your ear channel. Whenever I used them, the music volume felt like I was standing in a quiet-ish elevator. You can dance without using your knees if you have knee issues. My point with both of these is: you can patch these issues. When you smoke weed, your lungs will be hit. When you drink alcohol, your brain will be hit. I…

So then if you eat weed... what then?

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#70

Post by akvadrako »

kjax wrote: post #62
gmac wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Tastes as good as regular Heineken" is not exactly high praise. :)

Heineken's domestic formula differs from the export formula (primarily due to the amount of hops added to the export formula, IIRC), which is covered on the tour. The domestic Heineken really is much better than the stuff we get in North America.

I live in Amsterdam and almost everybody I know considers Heineken only tolerable - it's the Bud Light of the region.

Personally I think Heineken 0% is better than the normal pils.

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