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No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

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Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#21
post #11

Submission title gets it wrong. What the study found was that of the total variance in the amount of gray matter, only 0.8% of that variance could be explained by alcohol consumption.

So basically the result from this study could be re-stated as "alcohol consumption has no significant influence on grey matter volume"?

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#22
I need some more context in order to understand the actual risks being suggested here. I fall into the "low to moderate" drinking category described in the study.

First, when we say 0.8% of gray matter, over what time period does that loss occur? The authors don't seem to know.

Second, what sort of effects does losing, say, 1% of gray matter integrity have? Increased risk of stroke, seizure, etc.? Effects on intellect?

It's all about risk/reward. If losing 0.8% of my total gray matter over, say, my lifetime (I don't know if that's what it is) results in a 1% loss in intellect over my lifetime, in exchange for thousands of hours of happiness resulting from moderate drinking, I'm probably OK with that. I don't intend to live forever. If it were 10% of intellectual capacity... maybe not.

Alcohol is a poison, the only totally-safe dose is 0% - in the same way that the only way to never get into a car accident is to never go outside. But I'd still like to better understand the relative harms before altering my (already reasonable) habits.

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#23
post #2

Is there a safer alternative?

Alcohol is drugs such as weed, mdma and heroine. One is more dangerous than the other, but they have one thing in common. Drugs damage the body and/or to some extent in some way, shape or form. Don't do alcohol. If you have social pressure, fake it. Like order a beer and don't actually drink it, pretend to sip. I think people need to take this more seriously and start to think for themselves. I know it's hard, we hav…

This is a hilarious mental image to me. Like people aren’t going to notice your full pint glass after 10 minutes of fake sipping. Why would you not just tell them you don’t drink?

Also, alcohol is definitely really bad for you, but an occasional pub visit is hardly going to take years off your life.

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#24
Interestingly they also found alcohol consumption was positively correlated with node interconnection, a metric (per the paper) associated with higher cognitive performance. So alcohol will shrink your brain, but apparently it will make you smarter?

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#25
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol is drugs such as weed, mdma and heroine. One is more dangerous than the other, but they have one thing in common. Drugs damage the body and/or to some extent in some way, shape or form. Don't do alcohol. If you have social pressure, fake it. Like order a beer and don't actually drink it, pretend to sip. I think people need to take this more seriously and start to think for themselves. I know it's hard, we hav…

Most things damage your body in some way, shape, or form. Obviously the best solution is to not drink, but IMO it's not a great alternative. Something like what you mentioned at the end makes more sense.

Well, what I keep doing is make it more emotionally understandable to myself that alcohol fuck things up even at small levels (I've seen it, 3 glasses of wine and people are fighting :/).

> IMO it's not a great alternative.

Why isn't it?

I'm not implying I disagree, I am simply wondering what you think.

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#26
When I was younger, reading about the history of Prohibition in the US, I thought it was completely bonkers. The idea that alcohol was even worth a ban, let alone whether such a ban could be enforced, was silly to me.

But the more I read about stuff like this, the more I realize that alcohol isn't special among the various things we call "drugs". It's not good for your physical health, and "everything in moderation" may not really apply to it either. I know several people for whom drinking was destroying their mental health. Why is alcohol legal, when other drugs are heavily restricted? (Those restrictions, sadly, mostly don't work either.)

I enjoy drinking. I like cocktails. I like wine. I don't love beer, but I do find some beers tasty and worth drinking. I find the very occasional night of heavy drinking with a big group of friends to be fun (though I realize that my memory of those nights ends up being hazy to the point that it's hard to really claim it was worth it).

But I also drank a ton of soda when I was a kid, gave it up completely in college, and don't miss it at all. Alcohol should be no different, but the social and cultural pressure around it makes it different.

I've definitely decreased my alcohol consumption over the past 5 years or so, and I'm happy with that decision. I don't think I can bring myself to cut it out of my life entirely, though.

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#28
post #6

* 1.5% OF gray matter loss Meaning 1.5% of the loss can be explained by alcohol

Yah, the paper says that alcohol consumption explains 0.8% of the observed variance in grey matter, while age explains 54% of variance.

Following a few references, this paper seems to show a average 20%(!) reduction in brain volume from age 60 to 90: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2690968/ . Don't get old, folks...

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#29
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol is drugs such as weed, mdma and heroine. One is more dangerous than the other, but they have one thing in common. Drugs damage the body and/or to some extent in some way, shape or form. Don't do alcohol. If you have social pressure, fake it. Like order a beer and don't actually drink it, pretend to sip. I think people need to take this more seriously and start to think for themselves. I know it's hard, we hav…

Dancing is bad for the knees and music is bad for hearing loss...

You can buy earplugs specifically made for music. I recommend to actually tailor make them for your ear channel. Whenever I used them, the music volume felt like I was standing in a quiet-ish elevator.

You can dance without using your knees if you have knee issues.

My point with both of these is: you can patch these issues. When you smoke weed, your lungs will be hit. When you drink alcohol, your brain will be hit.

I agree that with everything we do, there is some form of upkeep. The argument about drugs is that the upkeep might be too much.

One could argue that 0.8% gray matter loss is fine. I'm simply not one of them.

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