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No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

medrxiv.org

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Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#51

Post by mritchie712 »

hesdeadjim wrote: post #7

Haven’t had a drop in fourteen years after being a weekend binge drinker. I don’t begrudge the substance, but it has been transformative being this far removed from it. The downside? Dear god have I missed the taste of beer. La Croix and other products don’t fill the gap. There has thankfully been an explosion in the NA craft beer scene in the last few years, and some of them are good enough that I’ve had friends who…

Same here, quitting changed my life. I started https://stopping.app/ to make it easier to quit

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#52

Post by [deleted] »

bspammer wrote: post #23
mettamage wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol is drugs such as weed, mdma and heroine. One is more dangerous than the other, but they have one thing in common. Drugs damage the body and/or to some extent in some way, shape or form. Don't do alcohol. If you have social pressure, fake it. Like order a beer and don't actually drink it, pretend to sip. I think people need to take this more seriously and start to think for themselves. I know it's hard, we hav…

This is a hilarious mental image to me. Like people aren’t going to notice your full pint glass after 10 minutes of fake sipping. Why would you not just tell them you don’t drink? Also, alcohol is definitely really bad for you, but an occasional pub visit is hardly going to take years off your life.

[deleted]

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#53

Post by moshmosh »

bspammer wrote: post #23
mettamage wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol is drugs such as weed, mdma and heroine. One is more dangerous than the other, but they have one thing in common. Drugs damage the body and/or to some extent in some way, shape or form. Don't do alcohol. If you have social pressure, fake it. Like order a beer and don't actually drink it, pretend to sip. I think people need to take this more seriously and start to think for themselves. I know it's hard, we hav…

This is a hilarious mental image to me. Like people aren’t going to notice your full pint glass after 10 minutes of fake sipping. Why would you not just tell them you don’t drink? Also, alcohol is definitely really bad for you, but an occasional pub visit is hardly going to take years off your life.

I thought soda water (or sparkling mineral water) with lemon or lime was the official no-I'm-not-drinking-but-I-am-familiar-with-bars-and-don't-bug-me-about-it drink. Fake-sipping a beer would be bizarre.

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#54

Post by outworlder »

kelnos wrote: post #26

When I was younger, reading about the history of Prohibition in the US, I thought it was completely bonkers. The idea that alcohol was even worth a ban, let alone whether such a ban could be enforced, was silly to me. But the more I read about stuff like this, the more I realize that alcohol isn't special among the various things we call "drugs". It's not good for your physical health, and "everything in moderation"…

> the more I realize that alcohol isn't special among the various things we call "drugs".

But it is.

Humans are pretty good at metabolizing alcohol. Other species are not as good (carnivores in particular). Why is that?

Every day bacteria in your gut produce alcohol. Every day you ingest it. Some percentage of carbs get converted daily. It's conceivable that our bodies are fine with small amounts.

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#55

Post by gmac »

elliekelly wrote: post #46
hesdeadjim wrote: post #7

Haven’t had a drop in fourteen years after being a weekend binge drinker. I don’t begrudge the substance, but it has been transformative being this far removed from it. The downside? Dear god have I missed the taste of beer. La Croix and other products don’t fill the gap. There has thankfully been an explosion in the NA craft beer scene in the last few years, and some of them are good enough that I’ve had friends who…

When I was in Amsterdam just before Covid I went to the Heineken factory and they gave us samples of their Heineken 0.0 which is brewed entirely without alcohol rather than the usual “non-alcoholic” beer approach of brewing it and then removing the alcohol. It was surprisingly good! Unless you do a side by side comparison of the regular and the 0.0 I doubt you’d ever know. Tangentially related, I wish I could remembe…

"Tastes as good as regular Heineken" is not exactly high praise. :)

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#56

Post by just-ok »

dsr_ wrote: post #19

Median alcohol intake was 13.5 units ( 102g) weekly That was among people who drank at all; for reference, that's just under two standard drinks per day, which is apparently what the UK considers the threshold of "low risk".

> Glasses were converted to UK units as follows: red or white wine = 1.7 units; fortified wine=1.2 units; pint = 2.4 units; spirits = 1 unit; other (e.g. alcopops) = 1.2 units. Amounts were also converted to grams pure ethanol (1 UK unit=8g) to aid international comprehension and comparison.

Can someone explain these numbers to me? They claim to measure one “standard drink” (all of which are equal), yet each variant is a different number of units? Furthermore, wine is more (stronger?) than spirits? I must be missing something.

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#57

Post by thatcat »

mettamage wrote: post #5
flemhans wrote: post #2

Is there a safer alternative?

Alcohol is drugs such as weed, mdma and heroine. One is more dangerous than the other, but they have one thing in common. Drugs damage the body and/or to some extent in some way, shape or form. Don't do alcohol. If you have social pressure, fake it. Like order a beer and don't actually drink it, pretend to sip. I think people need to take this more seriously and start to think for themselves. I know it's hard, we hav…

Hmm so you're telling people what to do and telling them to think for themselves at the same time. You only listed illegal drugs, what about medications, food, etc? Humans evolved because of mutagens in our diet. The paper literally points out that even if you try to preserve your body, age is the biggest factor in degradation - in the end there is no "safe".

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#58

Post by ivraatiems »

aspaviento wrote: post #50
ivraatiems wrote: post #22

I need some more context in order to understand the actual risks being suggested here. I fall into the "low to moderate" drinking category described in the study. First, when we say 0.8% of gray matter, over what time period does that loss occur? The authors don't seem to know. Second, what sort of effects does losing, say, 1% of gray matter integrity have? Increased risk of stroke, seizure, etc.? Effects on intellec…

> in exchange for thousands of hours of happiness resulting from moderate drinking I would be concerned if my happiness depends in any way on how much alcohol I consume.

Then you shouldn't drink any, being as it's a drug that makes you (general you) happier and more social, and that's one of the primary reasons it's consumed.

Possibly you are confusing momentary happiness/qualitative enjoyment of a given experience with overall life happiness/mental state?

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#59

Post by mettamage »

driverdan wrote: post #41
mettamage wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol is drugs such as weed, mdma and heroine. One is more dangerous than the other, but they have one thing in common. Drugs damage the body and/or to some extent in some way, shape or form. Don't do alcohol. If you have social pressure, fake it. Like order a beer and don't actually drink it, pretend to sip. I think people need to take this more seriously and start to think for themselves. I know it's hard, we hav…

The dose makes the poison. Drinking too much water can kill you. Abstinence is not necessarily safer or better than moderation.

While I agree with that, I think it's better to start from a "better safe than sorry approach." It is much more likely that a study like this would have been published about alcohol than about 100% pure water.

So in that sense, the comment I made is not so much about the facts, it's more about strategy for optimal health.

Everyone has their own strategy of course.

Re: No safe level of alcohol for brain health: observational cohort study [pdf]

#60

Post by jasonhansel »

kelnos wrote: post #26

When I was younger, reading about the history of Prohibition in the US, I thought it was completely bonkers. The idea that alcohol was even worth a ban, let alone whether such a ban could be enforced, was silly to me. But the more I read about stuff like this, the more I realize that alcohol isn't special among the various things we call "drugs". It's not good for your physical health, and "everything in moderation"…

The current evidence suggests that Prohibition in the US was far more successful than most of us have been led to believe: https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/6/5/18518005/prohibit...

> Across the Hudson River, in Manhattan, the number of patients treated in Bellevue Hospital’s alcohol wards dropped from fifteen thousand a year before Prohibition to under six thousand in 1924. Nationally, cirrhosis deaths fell by more than a third between 1916 and 1929. In Detroit, arrests for drunkenness declined 90 percent during Prohibition’s first year. Domestic violence complaints fell by half.

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