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Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

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Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#771

Post by ppf »

Reason077 wrote: post #750
ppf wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>car makers are incentivised to try to ensure their vehicles have decent resale value Why? They are only incentivised to make more profit, and selling high-tech expensive cars that break after 10 years is great for that. The ones that will bear the cost of that will be either the financing companies (and it would be fun to see the market collapse as the current crop of shiny German cars hits the 2nd hand market and n…

Now days it is often the automakers themselves doing the financing/leasing, so if a model has poor residuals it directly affects their profits. Even with third-party financing, the anticipated residuals influence the attractiveness of the lease offer. A cheaper lease offer means more sales for the automaker, and thus more profits.

Personally I don't think the market has yet caught up to the fact that today's new cars will make horrible purchases as the 3rd or so owner.

All the financiers have to do is make sure someone buys it for a good price after 3 years of being leased from new. That's not a bad proposition - the car will probably last a while longer with all of its electonic toys and gizmos working. It's the buyer after that (of which I am usually one) that will find out how expensive the car is to maintain.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#772

Post by throwaway0a5e »

organsnyder wrote: post #765
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is this actually true or merely a theoretical thought? On one hand you have FCA (I'm sorry, Stellantis ) which leans into its not so positive reputation and does just fine. The other hand you have Toyota who spend the 90s and 00s digging a goodwill moat in the minds of premium consumers. Both approaches work but for different demographics. You'll never see a 4Runner with a magnetic company sticker sitting in an indu…

> Both approaches work but for different demographics. You'll never see a 4Runner with a magnetic company sticker sitting in an industrial parking lot or in less well off part of town and you'll never see a Pacifica in an upscale suburban driveway. Huh? Pacificas are everywhere, especially since they also have the only PHEV minivan in the US. In the PHEV Pacifica FB group I'm in (I do own one, so I am a bit biased he…

I wanted to say Dodge Journey but they don't make that anymore and it wasn't really a popular fleet vehicle. The nature of the comparison I had to make kind of forced my hand. The Pacifica (minivans in general, too much $$ new) doesn't scream negative equity nearly as loudly as the Journey.

You're right about the PHEV thing attracting a lot of people who otherwise would never own a Chrysler. Checking "just the right boxes" is something FCA is really good at with their more niche vehicles. The high horsepower Charger/Challenger/Cherokee and the Jeep Wrangler are amazingly good at creating a way for the married couple who can't agree on what vehicle want to both leave with enough of their boxes checked.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#773

Post by optymizer »

plantain wrote: post #759
optymizer wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

out of curiosity, and if you don't mind sharing that info, how many bitcoins have you mined with 1 card in 6 months? Did it pay for the electricity and the card itself at the current BTC price?

It earns about $6-10US/day, off surplus solar during the day and about 50c of grid electricity through the night.

Interesting, that's much higher than I expected. Thanks for the info!

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#774

Post by proudfoot »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #746
Joker_vD wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> car makers are incentivised to try to ensure their vehicles have decent resale value Is this actually true or merely a theoretical thought? Because it would seem that car makers are incentivised to ensure their vehicles annihilate a couple days after their warranty expires and/or after a couple of miles after their guaranteed mileage is driven, and comparing e.g. reputation of second-hand cars manufactured in 80es/…

>Is this actually true or merely a theoretical thought? On one hand you have FCA (I'm sorry, Stellantis ) which leans into its not so positive reputation and does just fine. The other hand you have Toyota who spend the 90s and 00s digging a goodwill moat in the minds of premium consumers. Both approaches work but for different demographics. You'll never see a 4Runner with a magnetic company sticker sitting in an indu…

I live in Palo Alto. I have a Pacifica (PHEV). I see many many Pacificas on the road and in driveways. The MSRP of a fully loaded hybrid is 54k. The MSRP of a fully loaded gasser is pretty close.

The reputation hasn't stopped FCA from selling to this market. Wranglers and Grand Cherokees are pretty common too, as well as the rare Hellcat.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#775

Post by sekai »

standardUser wrote: post #179
wbraun wrote: post #2

Does this behavior anger anyone else on a deep level? I get that its hard to buy GPUs right now, but this seems like such an attack on general purpose computing. Hardware manufactures already segment features between consumer and busness grade parts that the silicon itself is capable of, such as virtualization, but restricting what algorithms one can run is a whole new level. I am pretty sure my next GPU is going to…

I find the energy used in crypto mining to be a crime against humanity and support reasonable efforts to curtail it. Until we price in the externalities of using fossil fuel energy, no one should be wasting energy on this scale for such a spectacularly nonessential purpose.

Nonsense for you maybe, would you call flight travel, cruises crimes against humanity?

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#776

Post by pfisch »

Clewza313 wrote: post #633
pfisch wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2080ti's don't cost $2500. ???

Oh yes they do: https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=2080ti

Scalpers prices are not retail. I have bought around 4 3070s/3080s all for under 1000 at actual retail pricing.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#777

Post by babypuncher »

InvertedRhodium wrote: post #386
babypuncher wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more that Nvidia knows datacenter customers have the money to pay a premium for "datacenter grade" products.

Isn't that kind of the point? If consumers and enterprises were competing for the same product, we would probably see a similar situation as we are with consumers and miners.

We would also see higher prices for consumers, since Nvidia would need to crank up higher profit margin a bit on their RTX cards to make the same average profit per chip sold without their high margin Quadro cards going to enterprise.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#778

Post by smoldesu »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #724
humaniania wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No money in video game piracy? What? https://jolt.richmond.edu/2019/02/09/the-unwinnable-war-on-v...

Do game pirates make 10 million from hacking a game? Because miners do.

It's certainly not for lack of trying. Fail0verflow, one of the largest and most successful CTF teams in the world, spent nearly 2 years trying to reverse engineer the bootloader, and ended up never finding any real security exploits in the process. There were warmboot attacks (see Fusee-Gelee) that involved code injection, but even then the machine would still recognize it was running in debug mode, and block the user from access to certain functions. Besides being a great anecdote here, the history of Switch hacking is really interesting, and well worth looking into if you have the time.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#779

Post by stale2002 »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #739
stale2002 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their intent is to limit what people can do with their hardware. Not really. The intent is to get graphics cards in the hands of gamers and professionals, instead of in the hands of crypto miners. That is the end goal here. If you have a better solution, of how to do this without people getting around it via reselling, ect , please suggest it.

> Not really. The intent is to get graphics cards in the hands of gamers and professionals, instead of in the hands of crypto miners. Perhaps I'm missing something, but why doesn't nVidia just make the best cards they can, and sell them for the highest price they can? What does nVidia care if their customers are using their cards for gaming or mining?

> What does nVidia care if their customers are using their cards for gaming or mining?

Because it makes a lot of business sense to prioritize the long time gamer customer base, as opposed to the crypto market, which could disappear very quickly.

Prioritizing certain customers, that will be around in the future, makes a lot of sense.

It also helps build a gaming ecosystem. If gamers don't have graphics cards, then the gaming ecosystem as a whole suffers, and could hurt their future business.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#780

Post by behringer »

kyboren wrote: post #655
graynk wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We know how markets work Badly. They work badly. > But instead they insist on continuing to mis-price their products They are not mis-priced, they are already a pretty hefty buy. If the prices were to increase even further, _then_ it would be mis-priced, as no-one needs to spend this much on a videocard to play videogames. The fact that gamers have to compete with miners (for whom it's an investment) and AI researc…

No, they work very well. You just don't like it because other people are willing to pay more than you are. > They are not mis-priced They are mis-priced. The market value is much higher than MSRP, which you can see on e.g. eBay. There is nothing to justify here, it is simply an objective fact they are mis-priced.

They are mispriced as far as gaming equipment goes. Nobody will release a 2000 dollar game console because nobody would buy it. However, release a 2000 dollar game card that only those willing to mine with it for 6 months can afford, and you don't have a gaming market for long.
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