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Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

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Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#681

Post by kuratkull »

gpanders wrote: post #484
californical wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is different than just product segmentation or binning chips - this is hardware restricting software. How would you feel towards Intel if they didn’t allow you to run Microsoft Office on an i3 chip because it’s a “consumer grade processor” - you have to upgrade to an i5 or higher to run “business programs”.

But that’s not what they’re doing. They’re simply limiting the hash rate. You can still run mining software, it just won’t be very good at it.

It's more like you wanting to buy an i3 that is up to spec for your games, but then Intel launches a new batch of those i3's with intentionally reduced gaming performance because it's not meant as a gaming CPU (in the eyes of Intel), please upgrade to an >= i5

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#682

Post by formerly_proven »

akelly wrote: post #546
cle wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know much about GPUs and am curious how this "burn out" happens, do you have a link for those of us who'd like to read more about this?

There's three main ways GPUs wear out, silicon electromigration, electrolytic capacitor dryout, and fan bearing failure. And the first two happen much faster at higher temperatures. Temperatures are similar between gaming and mining, but miners run 24/7 compared to gaming 1-2 hrs/day, so the GPUs age like 10x faster. But still, GPU failures are pretty rare, I think the concern is overblown.

> electrolytic capacitor dryout

Has anyone spotted electrolytics on a card in the last ten years or so?

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#683

Post by baybal2 »

akelly wrote: post #441

This won't really do anything for availability or reducing scalper pricing. Miners are a sizeable proportion of sales but far from the majority. Gamers will be able to buy more of these GPUs but less of the non-LHR or AMD GPU's. GPU prices won't actually change. The real reason Nvidia is doing this is that when mining profitability inevitably drops, either because of a crypto price crash or Ethereum moving to Proof o…

> Nvidia is trying to get miners to buy mining-only cards, because those can't be sold to gamers down the line. They'd rather mining cards become e-waste in a few years than get resold.

On other note, the "cloud" Vega that AMD sold to the very few cloud videogaming companies comes with exact same limitations, and a clause of non-resale, and non-refurbishment. This way buyers, can't simply solder display connector to those cards, and sell them on open market.

Imagine Intel would've sold their Xeons with the same limitations... but wait, they actually did this for "custom fused" Xeons they sell to big dotcoms.

Now, who said that silicon vendors can't "vendor lock" their dotcom clients? By buying direct, all those dotcoms have exposed themselves to an even bigger supplier risk of this type, and not reduced it.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#685

Post by MaPi_ »

TheRealSteel wrote: post #672
arthurcolle wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is someone mining on GPUs they bought themselves infringing on your freedom, pray tell?

I'm no longer free to live on a planet that has been destroyed by climate change. Crptocurrency mining uses more energy than Argentina.

According to this[1] website, bitcoin mining is only around 0.6% of the worlds power consumption. It is certainly not anywhere near to being the main cause of global warming.

[1]https://cbeci.org/cbeci/comparisons

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#686

Post by thefz »

akelly wrote: post #441

This won't really do anything for availability or reducing scalper pricing. Miners are a sizeable proportion of sales but far from the majority. Gamers will be able to buy more of these GPUs but less of the non-LHR or AMD GPU's. GPU prices won't actually change. The real reason Nvidia is doing this is that when mining profitability inevitably drops, either because of a crypto price crash or Ethereum moving to Proof o…

> The real reason Nvidia is doing this is that when mining profitability inevitably drops, either because of a crypto price crash or Ethereum moving to Proof of Stake, the miners will flood the used market and ruin Nvidia's profits for a few quarters.

Taking into consideration that the gamer segment is now well aware that miners and scalpers are ruining their supply, I really hope that when the flood of used cards happen, nobody with a grain of salt will buy devices that have run at 98% their thermal limit for years. I really hope that market-ruining miners will find themselves with a ton of hardware nobody wants anymore.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#687

Post by dmurray »

finchisko wrote: post #663
Reason077 wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ”Nvidia has no incentive to make sure the GPU market operates in a sustainable way by supporting a secondary market.” They do in the sense that buyers often consider future resale values when making primary purchase decisions. It’s much easier to justify purchasing a $2500 “enthusiast” graphics card if you’re confident you can get a decent chunk of that back when you sell it in 6-12 months. Similarly, car makers ar…

In my experience base level items have much better resale value then more expensive items. It's true for notebooks, graphic cards and cars too. For example my iPhone 11 Pro has fallen to half of the price in one year, but entry level iPhone 11 probably has still 70% of its value. Same for Macbook Air, entry level with 8GB and 256 SSD will hold value better then maxed out one. Same with cars, extra premium equipment h…

The entry level iPhone 11 and Macbook Air are still premium products. You're not reselling your €250 unbranded Walmart laptop for anything more than scrap.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#688

Post by bserge »

cle wrote: post #506
creato wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the issues people have mentioned in this thread is that cards sold by miners are often burnt out or nearly burnt out. In that case, it seems like cutting off miners from the secondary market would be an improvement for the secondary market.

I don't know much about GPUs and am curious how this "burn out" happens, do you have a link for those of us who'd like to read more about this?

Just normal wear, accelerated because it's always under load. The used cards are fine most of the time if the temperatures were stable under 80-90 degC.

The main cause of failure is the VRM, those components are the hottest, least reliable and least cooled.

Sadly, sometimes a blown transistor or capacitor can take out the whole GPU.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#689

Post by pferde »

thefz wrote: post #686
akelly wrote: post #441

This won't really do anything for availability or reducing scalper pricing. Miners are a sizeable proportion of sales but far from the majority. Gamers will be able to buy more of these GPUs but less of the non-LHR or AMD GPU's. GPU prices won't actually change. The real reason Nvidia is doing this is that when mining profitability inevitably drops, either because of a crypto price crash or Ethereum moving to Proof o…

> The real reason Nvidia is doing this is that when mining profitability inevitably drops, either because of a crypto price crash or Ethereum moving to Proof of Stake, the miners will flood the used market and ruin Nvidia's profits for a few quarters. Taking into consideration that the gamer segment is now well aware that miners and scalpers are ruining their supply, I really hope that when the flood of used cards ha…

Please take into consideration that this will be the same naive, impressionable "market segment" that repeatedly pre-orders new games, even though there is no real reason to do so, as the games are digital copies, so there is no scarcity. The same market segment also rewards shitty game companies, producing half-finished, barely working product, with their money again and again. All because of a combination of deviously good marketing and FOMO.

So yes, I fully expect those soon-to-break GPUs to sell like hotcakes, and a lot of crying soon thereafter.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#690

Post by Natsu »

tshaddox wrote: post #66
capableweb wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> refusing to even acknowledge or entertain criticism I'm not advocating for you not listen to criticism aimed towards your principle. But if your principle gets put to the test and you abandon it, it's no longer something you fundamentally agree on, it was some "light belief" that you had.

Replace “principle” with “scientific theory.” Why shouldn’t principles be subject to tests and criticism?

If it were due to new facts and information, sure, but a lot of time the "new" principles appear to be self-interest biases manifesting.

Also, if your principles are likely to change quickly, it's probable that they haven't been thought through very thoroughly to begin with. It's not like you have to wait for situations to actually arise to consider them.

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