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Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

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Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#311

Post by WorldMaker »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #288
SigmundA wrote: post #117

This is at 66.9 km/h (40 mph) in order to greatly increase its range due to lower drag compared to normal highway speeds. As a comparison a Tesla Model 3 got 975km (606 miles) at 40 km/h (25 mph) [1]. I can't seem to find any range tests at a similar speed as the Nexo. I found an EPA dyno test for the Model 3 at 77 km/h (48mph) for 708 km (440 miles). The Nexo and Model 3 have similar dimension and weight and price,…

Hydrogen needs to be a game changer to command a redirection of investment and effort for consumer transportation. Even if it offers 20% better range and some allegedly better refuel experience (H2 people keep handwaving that as "solved"), that wouldn't justify the gigantic infrastructure switchover cost. Electric vehicles can use the grid. That's a massive advantage for infrastructure readiness and scalability, even…

Plus, unlike gas, the hydrogen is never directly burnt "in the engine", it's always converted to electricity first. A hydrogen car is always going to use EV motors (and batteries, because while denser, H2 doesn't yet have anything near the ability to supply power at high demand that current battery tech has) and have all the complexity of an EV, often without the convenience of grid charging (home charging) given much smaller batteries to compensate for the weight of the fuel cell and fuel.

Even the greatest H2 car is always just going to be a second class EV with "weird fuel needs".

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#312

Post by jogjayr »

sandworm101 wrote: post #306
jogjayr wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have yet to see any electric car that can handle -50*c. The car can use battery power to heat itself and its battery when it's that cold, right? It'll consume more energy but it'll still work.

Maybe, but cars like Tesla have minimum operating/storage temperatures, usually on the order of -30c. With modern telemetry systems I don't want a warranty repair to be rejected because I had to park it overnight at -40. It hit -46 one night last winter, staying below -40 for several days in a row. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/how-cold-is-too-cold... "Do not expose Model S to ambient temperatures above 140…

Does it get that cold in a garage? I assume you'd always want to park a $100k automobile in a closed garage.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#314

Post by malinens »

_ea1k wrote: post #139
bildung wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people can't charge at home (because most people live in multi-story houses in a bigger cities and don't have a garage to charge in), so refueling in 2min at a gas station still has appeal.

At least 75% of Americans live in houses. A garage isn't necessary, just a driveway with access to an outlet.

Yeah, forget those 25% (I assume it is something like roughly 100 million people in USA). In other parts of the world it is even smaller percentage...

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#315

Post by seryoiupfurds »

WorldMaker wrote: post #311
AtlasBarfed wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen needs to be a game changer to command a redirection of investment and effort for consumer transportation. Even if it offers 20% better range and some allegedly better refuel experience (H2 people keep handwaving that as "solved"), that wouldn't justify the gigantic infrastructure switchover cost. Electric vehicles can use the grid. That's a massive advantage for infrastructure readiness and scalability, even…

Plus, unlike gas, the hydrogen is never directly burnt "in the engine", it's always converted to electricity first. A hydrogen car is always going to use EV motors (and batteries, because while denser, H2 doesn't yet have anything near the ability to supply power at high demand that current battery tech has) and have all the complexity of an EV, often without the convenience of grid charging (home charging) given muc…

Maybe that's where current hydrogen R&D is going, but it isn't inherently true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_internal_combustion_e...

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#316

Post by vkou »

sfblah wrote: post #252
vardump wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the Tesla is known for rigging its EPA tests for higher, but illusory, numbers. By that you must mean Tesla bothers to do the full suite of EPA tests instead of accepting a somewhat penalizing multiplier, like how other manufacturers do? There's no rigging whatsoever and the same option is available for other manufacturers as well. If they bother to do the longer and more demanding test cycle, that is.

Nobody cares exactly how a company gets unrealistically high numbers. What matters is as a consumer your experience won’t match the company’s claims. Best would be for companies just to tell the truth. C.f. the “full self driving” falsehood.

Anyone who has bought a car in the last 50 years is already well aware of how much EPA mileage differs from actual mileage.

My old 2010 Prius was EPA-rated for 50 MPG. If I drove it with kid gloves over flat terrain, I could hit that mileage. If I drove it in a way that doesn't piss other road users off, I would get closer to 46 MPG.

If I was doing 80+ MPH over the Rockies on the Trans-Canada, I'd be getting a cool 35 MPG, because air resistance is very high at those speeds, and because most of my braking was exceeding the regenerative capacity of the car.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#317

Post by _ea1k »

malinens wrote: post #314
_ea1k wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least 75% of Americans live in houses. A garage isn't necessary, just a driveway with access to an outlet.

Yeah, forget those 25% (I assume it is something like roughly 100 million people in USA). In other parts of the world it is even smaller percentage...

Forget? No, but that's ultimately up to the property owner to fix it. It is certainly no more onerous than a lot of amenities that they already provide. We have several here that have pretty good charging setups, and that will only improve.

But ultimately you can't please everyone. Hydrogen would have similar issues as you can't deploy it everywhere at once, it would take years.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#318

Post by bsdetector »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #294
bsdetector wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often overlooked is when you turn a hydrogen car off, it's off. Come back days or even months later and it should be exactly as you left it. On the other hand a Tesla Model 3 requires a lot of energy to stay warm in the winter - some reports from the dead of winter of it taking 2000 watts just to stay warm. Under extreme conditions you can't leave it unplugged for a week or possibly even a weekend without concern ove…

> a Tesla Model 3 requires a lot of energy to stay warm in the winter - some reports from the dead of winter of it taking 2000 watts just to stay warm. Under extreme conditions you can't leave it unplugged for a week or possibly even a weekend without concern over the battery charge and health. If that were the case there would be a lot of dead Teslas here in Norway. And even more dead Nissan Leafs which do not have…

Model 3 uses the wheel motors to generate heat and has some kind of single nexus for all coolant, very much different from Model S. The story you posted doesn't say anything about how much energy was lost over just 4 days, and it being noteworthy that the car can be left for 4 days without incident at presumably a high state of charge is telling on its own.

In any case, the only difference between the two models is the amount of time it takes before the car exhausts itself maintaining the battery.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#319

Post by narrator »

I remember back during the 2008 oil crisis, I was on a forum where we were talking about energy and the alternatives to oil and the consensus was that hydrogen was a lot less efficient than batteries. You had to store the hydrogen in compressed cylinders, it's flammable, you need expensive catalysts in fuel cells to transform it, though hydrogen is light, it takes a lot of volume to store it because it doesn't compress very well, refueling is complicated. There are also losses at every step of the energy pipeline: electrolysis, pipelining, compressing, decompressing, running it through fuel cells ,etc. It's much more efficient and less complicated to just use electricity and batteries.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#320

Post by jvanderbot »

SigmundA wrote: post #117

This is at 66.9 km/h (40 mph) in order to greatly increase its range due to lower drag compared to normal highway speeds. As a comparison a Tesla Model 3 got 975km (606 miles) at 40 km/h (25 mph) [1]. I can't seem to find any range tests at a similar speed as the Nexo. I found an EPA dyno test for the Model 3 at 77 km/h (48mph) for 708 km (440 miles). The Nexo and Model 3 have similar dimension and weight and price,…

The one thing H has going is quicker fills at the pump, right?

Being low on joules is a pain when you're going to work in the morning, but it's a royal pain if you have to wait a half hour to charge.

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