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Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

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Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#301

Post by jogjayr »

sandworm101 wrote: post #66
alex_young wrote: post #62

Hydrogen fuel is still a fossil fuel byproduct right? I’m not sure what the point of this is. It sure doesn’t seem like a green technology at this point.

It is, but it doesn't have to be. It is possible to make H2 from H20 and sunlight. At the moment there is little market for such "green" hydrogen but the hope is that hydrogen-based transportation will create that market. Imho I cannot afford to be a market leaders in this field. Until H2 is available everywhere, including at remote locations during Canadian winters, I'll have to stick to gas stations. (I have yet to…

> I have yet to see any electric car that can handle -50*c.

The car can use battery power to heat itself and its battery when it's that cold, right? It'll consume more energy but it'll still work.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#302

Post by ivalm »

wiz21c wrote: post #239
xiphias2 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen makes much more sense for container ships, where electric batteries can't be made practical, but hydrogen storage can be scaled easily.

And if the ship sinks I guess hydrogen pollutes less than oil ?

Maybe ever so slightly acidifies water + escapes atmosphere; I don’t think there is real hydrogen spill pollution.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#303

Post by scatters »

wiz21c wrote: post #239
xiphias2 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen makes much more sense for container ships, where electric batteries can't be made practical, but hydrogen storage can be scaled easily.

And if the ship sinks I guess hydrogen pollutes less than oil ?

The hydrogen goes up. Most of it will be in space in an hour or two. Any that doesn't will react with atmospheric oxygen to produce water vapor.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#304

Post by SigmundA »

bjourne wrote: post #293
SigmundA wrote: post #117

This is at 66.9 km/h (40 mph) in order to greatly increase its range due to lower drag compared to normal highway speeds. As a comparison a Tesla Model 3 got 975km (606 miles) at 40 km/h (25 mph) [1]. I can't seem to find any range tests at a similar speed as the Nexo. I found an EPA dyno test for the Model 3 at 77 km/h (48mph) for 708 km (440 miles). The Nexo and Model 3 have similar dimension and weight and price,…

> This is at 66.9 km/h (40 mph) in order to greatly increase its range due to lower drag compared to normal highway speeds. > As a comparison a Tesla Model 3 got 975km (606 miles) at 40 km/h (25 mph) [1]. I can't seem to find any range tests at a similar speed as the Nexo. > It doesn't seem like current fuels cell have much of a energy density / range advantage even though hydrogen itself is much more energy dense, t…

Drag isn't the only thing in play. They both are driving below highway speeds, one more so than the other, I wish there was some data for a Tesla at 40 mph vs 25 or 48 to compare more directly the difference. The Tesla will have between 975 and 708km range at 40 mph the NEXO is 887km, I will make an assumption the Tesla is less, but how much less, is it "much" different?

What is the energy density delta between a HFCV and BEV currently?

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#305

Post by WorldMaker »

wiz21c wrote: post #239
xiphias2 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen makes much more sense for container ships, where electric batteries can't be made practical, but hydrogen storage can be scaled easily.

And if the ship sinks I guess hydrogen pollutes less than oil ?

By a lot, mostly. The liquid hydrogen eventually doesn't have enough pressure/cold enough temperature to stay liquid so it turns back to gas and most bubbles out of the water (with some of it reacting with Oxygen and becoming more water). It's possible if it were a "big enough" and "concentrated enough" spill it might briefly create anoxic zones where fish will die. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_waters (But humans and dumb algae accidentally do that "all the time" and the ocean does have recovery methods from anoxic waters. It's not great for the climate or the ocean, but it is mostly survivable and much more "temporary" problem than the long term effects of oil pollution.)

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#306

Post by sandworm101 »

jogjayr wrote: post #301
sandworm101 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, but it doesn't have to be. It is possible to make H2 from H20 and sunlight. At the moment there is little market for such "green" hydrogen but the hope is that hydrogen-based transportation will create that market. Imho I cannot afford to be a market leaders in this field. Until H2 is available everywhere, including at remote locations during Canadian winters, I'll have to stick to gas stations. (I have yet to…

> I have yet to see any electric car that can handle -50*c. The car can use battery power to heat itself and its battery when it's that cold, right? It'll consume more energy but it'll still work.

Maybe, but cars like Tesla have minimum operating/storage temperatures, usually on the order of -30c. With modern telemetry systems I don't want a warranty repair to be rejected because I had to park it overnight at -40. It hit -46 one night last winter, staying below -40 for several days in a row.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/how-cold-is-too-cold...

"Do not expose Model S to ambient temperatures above 140° F (60° C) or below -22° F (-30° C) for more than 24 hours at a time."

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#307

Post by [deleted] »

542458 wrote: post #133
contriban wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anyone could trivially break the record "Make it bigger" doesn't really work in cars, otherwise range anxiety wouldn't exist as a concept. The record still makes sense because the Hyundai Nexo is commercially available and it's not a prototype with a comically-large just for the record tank.

“Make it bigger” does work, but it increasingly stops resembling a car. Check out the range this one can get on a single tank of hydrogen! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas-Centaur I don’t know what you’d consider the max range here to be, but it’s definitely better than 887km.

[deleted]

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#308

Post by contriban »

cptskippy wrote: post #184
contriban wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anyone could trivially break the record "Make it bigger" doesn't really work in cars, otherwise range anxiety wouldn't exist as a concept. The record still makes sense because the Hyundai Nexo is commercially available and it's not a prototype with a comically-large just for the record tank.

> "Make it bigger" doesn't really work in cars, otherwise range anxiety wouldn't exist as a concept. Sure it does. Just look at Tesla, at the time EVs had 24kwh or smaller batteries and they more than doubled that to give reasonable ranges.

My point is that there’s a limit to it. Teslas still don’t have the same range as a gas car in the same category/price. They could increase it but then I don’t think they can sell a lot of $150k Model Ss.

At some point you’ll have more drawbacks than it’s worth it (size, price, weight, efficiency, safety).

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#310

Post by colordrops »

emptyfile wrote: post #277
SigmundA wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lithium batteries still seem to have a way to go in energy density currently at around 250-300 wh/kg and going up year over year with a theoretical maximum (Sulfur cathode) of above 2500 wh/kg. At around 2000 wh/kg you are equivalent to diesel drivetrain energy density both size and weight based on my rough math. Expensive large hydrogen tanks in a trailer with high pressure lines to tractor seems like it would cause…

I have no clue about batteries or hydrogen tanks. But I'm always amused to think that posters on HN give more credence to their back-of-the-napkin calculations over opinions of, say, folks at Toshiba, Volvo or Daimler.

The people on HN are the same people that work at Toshiba, Volvo and Daimler. Many of them are more accomplished and you'll find sub-par engineers making bad decisions at any company.
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