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Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

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Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#281

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> The key to a hydrogen economy will rely on wasting energy on creation of hydrogen in locations with extremely abundant electricity. Honestly, this sounds just as bad as setting up bitcoin mines in places with high rates of renewables, to avoid directly throwing tons of CO2 in the atmosphere. Even if you have loads of clean energy, that's no reason to waste it when there are more efficient ways of using it (lithium…

I don't think you can feasibly ship all your electric batteries to be charged up in Iceland.

> don't think you can feasibly ship all your electric batteries to be charged up in Iceland.

No need if the Icelink DC link gets built. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelink

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anyone could trivially break the record "Make it bigger" doesn't really work in cars, otherwise range anxiety wouldn't exist as a concept. The record still makes sense because the Hyundai Nexo is commercially available and it's not a prototype with a comically-large just for the record tank.

While it's true that you could add probably double the H2 storage to most HFC vehicles, I think this is the correct take. The Mirai's fuel tank is 37.25 gallons/141 liters vs 12-15 gallons/45-55 liters of gasoline for most cars. Tank capacity only helps so much. You may have to fill up half as often, but having to go out of your way for a special station is annoying. ICE vehicles could easily have 40 gallon tanks, an…

> ICE vehicles could easily have 40 gallon tanks

My first vehicle had a 33 gallon tank. Not much room for anything bigger; of course mileage was awful. My most efficient car can do about 600 miles on a 14 gallon tank; if it had room for a 33 gallon tank, it could go halfway across the country on one tank.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#283
post #176

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Beyond the missing expensive infrastructure, the big problem is energy efficiency. Moving forward, we have to switch every energy production to renewables. But for the same amount of electric energy produced, an electric car gets about 3x the mileage than producing "green" hydrogen and powering fuel cell cars with it. Hydrogen means at least 3x the electricity cost and for many years to come, we are going to struggle…

I enjoy how you are taking all of the arguments people used against BEVs in favor of gas and using them against HV. The irony is strong in these threads.

Sorry, I don't get what you mean. Which arguments are you referring to and what is ironic?

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#284
There is a great concern about the safety of Lithium batteries because of the fire hazard, yet we are pursuing a much more dangerous technology with Hydrogen with very little gain in performance. Also, it still takes a significant amount of energy to produce the hydrogen.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#285
post #204

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Yes, those locations will play a huge role in securing the global energy supply. However, the hydrogen will be desperately needed in the industry (e.g. steel production) and for supporting the electric grid in times of both low wind and solar. No good reason to waste it around the year driving cars.

My understanding is that hydrogen may be most useful for heavy good vehicles rather than cars. EVs could be great for short range urban delivery vans etc but long haul infrastructure may be built around hydrogen if the supply chain is viable.

Might, but if the Tesla Semi becomes a reality, the potential market for hydrogen in trucks becomes much smaller too.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lithium batteries still seem to have a way to go in energy density currently at around 250-300 wh/kg and going up year over year with a theoretical maximum (Sulfur cathode) of above 2500 wh/kg. At around 2000 wh/kg you are equivalent to diesel drivetrain energy density both size and weight based on my rough math. Expensive large hydrogen tanks in a trailer with high pressure lines to tractor seems like it would cause…

I have no clue about batteries or hydrogen tanks. But I'm always amused to think that posters on HN give more credence to their back-of-the-napkin calculations over opinions of, say, folks at Toshiba, Volvo or Daimler.

Yes I always like to do my own math it has sniffed out the BS many a time from the likes of Tesla, Nikola and so on. Not always right, but amazing how many times theirs is wrong especially if marketing something.

You should alway try to understand the math / science and make your own judgements rather to falling for arguments from authority. This isn't always feasible but I think most people can do enough to weed out the snake oil to a much better degree than we seem to be doing as a society now.

Note this will also make you a better engineer / programmer in my experience.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#287
post #60
post #46

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Tesla record is over 1000 km, so at this point I'm not sure why anyone is interested in hydrogen for personal vehicles over electric.

We were getting 1000km between fill ups (60L tank) on a family road trip in a bog standard 1.8L gasoline (!) Ford Mondeo, seating 2 adults 2 kids and with trunk loaded to the brim and A/C running on full. Really difficult to be excited or impressed by these "records". Both Tesla and H2

A full charge for 15$ versus how much for fuel? And do you pollute?

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#288

This is at 66.9 km/h (40 mph) in order to greatly increase its range due to lower drag compared to normal highway speeds. As a comparison a Tesla Model 3 got 975km (606 miles) at 40 km/h (25 mph) [1]. I can't seem to find any range tests at a similar speed as the Nexo. I found an EPA dyno test for the Model 3 at 77 km/h (48mph) for 708 km (440 miles). The Nexo and Model 3 have similar dimension and weight and price,…

Hydrogen needs to be a game changer to command a redirection of investment and effort for consumer transportation.

Even if it offers 20% better range and some allegedly better refuel experience (H2 people keep handwaving that as "solved"), that wouldn't justify the gigantic infrastructure switchover cost.

Electric vehicles can use the grid. That's a massive advantage for infrastructure readiness and scalability, even if the current grid isn't ready for full EV consumer transportation.

EVs can use home solar as well. Easily scalable, adds redundancy and alleviates load to the grid.

H2 would need a huge buildout of hydrogen generators, transporters, refuelling. EVs are so far ahead of all of that.

By the time any significant H2 infrastructure was out there, it'd be 10 years even if they secured 100s of billions in financing yesterday.

In 10 years, the alternative energy / solar / home solar / grid / battery / storage economic proposition is likely to be 50% cheaper in real dollars, and possibly even better.

It's the same problem nuclear faces.

Sure, throw some money at places like aviation or maritime shipping.

But it's just distraction, because I think the oil industry knows that the hydrogen will come from natural gas for the foreseeable (10-40 years) with some "future switchover" to "green hydrogen".

Green hydrogen smacks of "clean coal". Granted the physics/engineering for it are a lot more realizable.

But everyone should see that for the shell game it is.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#289
post #239

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Hydrogen makes much more sense for container ships, where electric batteries can't be made practical, but hydrogen storage can be scaled easily.

And if the ship sinks I guess hydrogen pollutes less than oil ?

Sure, but it's not a big concern as it's not that common.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. News from 15 years ago: diesel powered car is 10 times cheaper than an electric car.

Thats like saying a second-hand Nespresso machine is cheaper than abrand new DeLonghi. Much smarter to compare total cost of ownership, and then the ociture is very different

Tell me more, please, about the TCO.
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