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How M1 Macs feel faster than Intel models: it’s about QoS

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Re: How M1 Macs feel faster than Intel models: it’s about QoS

#371

Post by V1ndaar »

InvaderFizz wrote: post #226
tobyhinloopen wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long does it take on a Ryzen 9 5950X

Ran a few cycles on my 5950x hackintosh: invaderfizz@FIZZ-5950X:~$ hyperfine 'cargo -q install -f ripgrep' Benchmark #1: cargo -q install -f ripgrep Time (mean ± σ): 19.190 s ± 0.392 s [User: 294.890 s, System: 17.144 s] Range (min … max): 18.352 s … 19.803 s 10 runs The CPU was averaging about 50% load, the dependencies go really fast when they can all parallel compile, but then the larger portions are stuck with si…

Just for reference (5950x too): ran 3 times just measuring with `time` on void linux using cargo from xbps. Mean of the last two runs (first was syncing and downloading) was ~13.8 s.

Re: How M1 Macs feel faster than Intel models: it’s about QoS

#372

Post by bscphil »

adriancr wrote: post #186
kryps wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not doing a release build.

thanks, problem solved - now it's 1 minute...

Wow. The fact that my Sandy Bridge laptop from 2011 does it in only 1:41 is pretty indicative of how badly processor improvements stalled out last decade. My processor (like yours, 4c8t): https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/52219/i...

Re: How M1 Macs feel faster than Intel models: it’s about QoS

#373

Post by peteri »

InvaderFizz wrote: post #226
tobyhinloopen wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long does it take on a Ryzen 9 5950X

Ran a few cycles on my 5950x hackintosh: invaderfizz@FIZZ-5950X:~$ hyperfine 'cargo -q install -f ripgrep' Benchmark #1: cargo -q install -f ripgrep Time (mean ± σ): 19.190 s ± 0.392 s [User: 294.890 s, System: 17.144 s] Range (min … max): 18.352 s … 19.803 s 10 runs The CPU was averaging about 50% load, the dependencies go really fast when they can all parallel compile, but then the larger portions are stuck with si…

My 5950X came in faster running in WSL2, but then I do have a Samsung 980 PRO running in a PCIe 4.0 slot.

  Benchmark #1: cargo -q install -f ripgrep
    Time (mean ± σ):     11.585 s ±  0.474 s    [User: 176.733 s, System: 5.677 s]
    Range (min … max):   11.271 s … 12.867 s    10 runs
Which I suspect leans towards an IO bottleneck.

Re: How M1 Macs feel faster than Intel models: it’s about QoS

#374

Post by varjag »

w0m wrote: post #315
spideymans wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really want to like Dell's XPS line. I really do. But their technical support is atrocious. My XPS trackpad stopped working months after purchase, and getting them to repair it was an utter nightmare. Their tech support seemingly hasn't improved at all in the past decade (which is when I last vowed to never buy a Dell again due to their horrible tech support). They may fool me twice, but never again. (I do hear tha…

> and getting them to repair it was an utter nightmare ~8 years ago; within 48h of the laptop breaking - had a Dell repair tech sitting at my kitchen table replacing mainboard on an XPS laptop. Has turnaround when you have the proper support contracts gotten that much worse? (admittedly, we did pay for the top support tier for a personal device as it was expensed for work. I wouldn't do anything else from any manufac…

Not sure about consumer side, but as a business we have 24h turnaround service with Dell.

Re: How M1 Macs feel faster than Intel models: it’s about QoS

#375

Post by _kbh_ »

rsfinn wrote: post #322
Spooky23 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny how many articles that just won’t say the obvious - it’s a faster computer. I have two laptops side by side, one is an M1, the other a HP in a slightly higher price point (more memory, bigger SSD). The challenges Intel has in the form factor are obvious — it’s a 1.2Ghz chip that turbos almost 2x as heat allows. In any dimension that it can do what you need, the Apple wins. Cheaper, faster, cooler, longer b…

It can't run Intel-based OSs or VMs, of course, but the latest version of Parallels Desktop runs ARM-based Linux guests on M1 Macs, as well as the Windows 10 ARM preview. (VMware has implied that the next release of Fusion will support Apple silicon as well.)

QEMU already supports x86_64 on Apple silicon. It was just slow last time I checked not sure of the performance now.

Re: How M1 Macs feel faster than Intel models: it’s about QoS

#376

Post by salamandersauce »

apexalpha wrote: post #170
harikb wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

granted they charge exorbitant prices for their hardware, but I can’t believe how my 2010 MacBook Pro is still functioning perfectly fine.. except for them making it unsupported. I can’t say that about any other pc/laptop I have had. Not even desktops

I don't know, I feel other laptops at the same price point as Apple Macbooks do this too, sometimes even better. I bought a HP 8530w in 2009 or so and it still works. Replacing the DVD drive for a SSD required just a common Philips screwdriver and battery replacements are sold by HP themselves or many others.

I was using my Dad's old ThinkPad 385XD from 1998 in 2009. Battery was unsurprisingly dead but every other piece was stock and worked although at some point I swapped the worn down trackpoint nub with one of the included spares we still had.

Re: How M1 Macs feel faster than Intel models: it’s about QoS

#377

Post by Arcuru »

Interesting, the article isn't clear how it's implemented and whether they dynamically adjust the QoS/Core, so I wonder if they solved the inversion problem. Basically you don't want a high-priority process to be dependent on a lower-priority process that's locked on a LITTLE core.

Windows solves this by placing basically everything onto the LITTLE cores, and user interactions serve as a priority bump up to the big cores. The key (which is difficult to implement in practice) is that they pass that priority along to every other called thread in the critical path so that every path necessary to respond to the user can be placed on the big cores. This means that if you are waiting for a response from the computer, every thread necessary to provide that response, including any normally low-priority background services, is able to run on the big cores.

I'd expect all the other OS's do a similar optimization for the big.LITTLE architectures. It seems to be the natural solution if you've worked in that space long enough.

Re: How M1 Macs feel faster than Intel models: it’s about QoS

#378

Post by salamandersauce »

eldaisfish wrote: post #209
apexalpha wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, I feel other laptops at the same price point as Apple Macbooks do this too, sometimes even better. I bought a HP 8530w in 2009 or so and it still works. Replacing the DVD drive for a SSD required just a common Philips screwdriver and battery replacements are sold by HP themselves or many others.

The point is that with mid-2010s apple laptops, >5 year lifespans are the norm. With the majority of other, even comparably priced laptops, that is the exception. There are other laptops that are similar or superior build quality to those from Apple (N.B. - older MacBooks, not the newer ones) but those are also easy to spot. They’ll usually be ThinkPads or some XPS models from dell.

Oh that's baloney. There's nothing special about Apple laptops besides the metal case. Arguably they have worse cooling than most PC laptops. My 2018 MBP runs like it's trying cook an egg and has since day one. My Brother's 2012 MBP suffered complete logic board failure after 4 or 5 years.

If it wasn't for the replacement keyboard warranty offered by Apple a good chunk of butterfly keyboard Macs would be useless junk due to the fact it's so hard to replace them. Frayed MagSafe adapters were a regular occurrence. And swollen batteries pushing up the top case not that rare either.

I think maybe people keep MacBooks longer, but it probably has more to do with the fact they spent so much on them that they feel it's worthwhile to repair/pay for AppleCare than them actually being magically more durable.

Re: How M1 Macs feel faster than Intel models: it’s about QoS

#380

Post by comex »

Arcuru wrote: post #377

Interesting, the article isn't clear how it's implemented and whether they dynamically adjust the QoS/Core, so I wonder if they solved the inversion problem. Basically you don't want a high-priority process to be dependent on a lower-priority process that's locked on a LITTLE core. Windows solves this by placing basically everything onto the LITTLE cores, and user interactions serve as a priority bump up to the big c…

As of recently, macOS does support priority inheritance for a bunch of synchronization primitives [1], ranging from pthread mutexes to Mach IPC. But it's not perfect. For instance, read-write locks currently don't support priority inheritance, though they could. More problematically, when userland processes use any kind of custom synchronization scheme based on condition variables or similar, there's no way for the kernel to know which thread is expected to signal the condition variable and thus should inherit priority. That includes when libraries implement their own mutexes on top of that [2]...

[1] https://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-4903.241.1/osfmk...

[2] https://github.com/Amanieu/parking_lot/issues/205

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