Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 382 posts

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#141

Post by rossdavidh »

I know this sounds odd, but at this point I don't think it matters, as far as what we need to do next, and more pressure on this point may just make that harder.

1) Regardless of whether or not this virus came from a lab, could such a thing plausibly happen in the future? Unquestionably yes.

2) Do we have international bodies to do inspection of the safety standards of any lab doing this kind of work? Ones that have the authority to require changes, or even shut down a lab, if those safety standards are not met? Unquestionably no, we have no such international body.

3) Could we make one? Yes, if China and Russia and the USA all agree to make one, it could be made binding on the rest of the world.

So, let's get on with that. I fear that the discussion of the origin of covid-19, while it has certainly been useful in showing what the potential future problems are, may get in the way of setting up something to prevent it happening (again?) in the future.

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#142

Post by dang »

prewett wrote: post #136
screye wrote: post #22

Shekhar Gupta (One of India's foremost journalists and media people) did a great 30 minute analysis of this article covering who the cast members are and how this ties back into various stories from the last year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlO8sKRynBY So far, the lab origin story sounds the most plausible and has the least holes in it. Now innocent until proven guilty is a thing, but is not like the PRC would e…

There was an article posted recently on HN with no discussion that outlined the evidence for the various theories, and had pretty solid evidence for the leak theory (assuming they didn't omit evidence for the other theories): https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-peop...

There was a large discussion about that article:

The origin of Covid: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27071432 - May 2021 (536 comments)

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#143

Post by bbatha »

johncena33 wrote: post #117
kossTKR wrote: post #112

What i find weird is the extreme and very unscientific agression among certain virologist: "If you think SARS-CoV-2 was engineered in a lab, please unfollow me. " https://twitter.com/macroliter/status/1390720308265508871 Then you have other academics in the comments saying nothing is certain yet, and other prominents labs like Gupta Labs at Cambridge and Bloom Lab from Seattle saying there could be multiple explanati…

Of course certain virologists would be eager to dismiss lab leak hypothesis. Just think about the implication of this hypothesis turns out to be true. Virologists have very strong conflict of interests. If these people have any integrity they'd refrain from commenting.

Lab leak does not necessarily imply the virus was engineered. Indeed there is reasonable evidence for the former and little, but not none, for the later.

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#144

Post by prewett »

wedn3sday wrote: post #24

Claiming that COVID came from a lab is pretty close to non-falsifiable, i.e. impossible to prove. I assume that if it was an accidental or intentional release of a bioweapon, all evidence would have long since been wiped clean. Making the claim that the CCP secretly created COVID is backed by zero evidence, and assuming they're even vaguely competent, all evidence to prove it would have been long since destroyed. Thi…

There was an article posted to HN recently that went into detail on the evidence contained within the virus itself, that it has features not consistent with natural processes. However, it wasn't secretly created, it was created (in part) with grants from the US, which are public.

https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-peop...

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#146

Post by 908B64B197 »

kossTKR wrote: post #112

What i find weird is the extreme and very unscientific agression among certain virologist: "If you think SARS-CoV-2 was engineered in a lab, please unfollow me. " https://twitter.com/macroliter/status/1390720308265508871 Then you have other academics in the comments saying nothing is certain yet, and other prominents labs like Gupta Labs at Cambridge and Bloom Lab from Seattle saying there could be multiple explanati…

> What i find weird is the extreme and very unscientific agression among certain virologist

Would be interesting to dig further into who is funding their research.

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#147

Post by dkersten »

actusual wrote: post #45
whatthesmack wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what your point is. The source for SARS and MERS were found within months. We're over a year into this with no clue. Based on the current circumstances' inconsistencies with historical circumstances, this appears to be something different.

His point still stands. Lack of evidence for one thing shouldn't be confused as evidence for something else. A man is home alone during a murder, and there is no evidence for this, did he commit the murder?

No, but when the second hypothesis is the one that CCP has banned any investigation and news of, is not cooperating on the investigation and when there had been claims about the WIV safety and the WIV has openly stated that they were researching bat-borne SARS-like coronaviruses, then the lack of evidence for any other cause makes this one seem all the more likely. That's a lot of coincidences.

If CCP are covering it up, then of course there will be a lack of direct evidence. The above doesn't prove it conclusively, but it does make it rather suspicious. Why would CCP be hampering the investigations if they have nothing to hide? It was over a year before they let the WHO have a look. Plenty of time to get rid of any actual evidence.

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#148

Post by mensetmanusman »

dougmwne wrote: post #97
mensetmanusman wrote: post #3

Part of me thinks that we should almost not waste the time to find out. Spend the effort on preparing for the next one, by improving air filtration etc. Politics is too deeply entrenched, it will be an impossibility to uncover the truth.

That viewpoint basically amounts to head in the sand. There is a plausible pathway to determine the origin. The lab could be openly investigated and the natural environment could be combed for an ancestor. If this was an unintentional release, it would vastly change the public perception and oversight protocols around pathogen research. Think what Chernobyl, Three Mile Island and Fukushima did to nuclear energy. If w…

This is actually a good point. I think you changed my mind :)

Thanks for the thoughtful post

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#149

Post by marcell »

Dah00n wrote: post #108

Any actual scientist (and not an "expert") know how long these things take. It took from 2002 to 2020 ( edit: or was it 2018? I can't remember ) to find a closely related SARS host (as in "not a match but close enough to point to a likely cause"). I find it very telling that we get lots of articles stating lots of stuff but not really any real scientific research papers on the source. I'm also not seeing any of these…

What do you make of the claim in this article [1], which says that intermediate host species were found within 4 months of SARS1 outbreak, and within 9 months of MERS outbreak? Admittedly I can't find the underlying source for his claims.

[1] https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-th...

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#150

Post by stirfish »

adrianb wrote: post #98
slowmovintarget wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, all the choices have already been made. The data have already been destroyed. The Wuhan lab where this research was taking place also had a leadership change, and is now run by someone in the military. That happened in March or April of 2020, IIRC. Chinese researchers and journalists disappeared in that time frame (their work was deleted from online archives, their names removed from public employment listings...…

> if you made statements like "this started in Wuhan, in the lab there, not in the animal market next to it," you were called racist, even though race had nothing to do with it. Honestly I always felt like "a scientist working with dangerous pathogens had an accident" is way less racist than "someone ate a weird animal from a wet market"... And yet the backlash was stronger for the lab leak scenario, almost as if the…

We went pretty quickly from "it started somewhere in China" to beating elderly asian people to death in the streets. I think the backlash was more against the justifications people use to be awful.
Post reply on HN