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The Awful German Language (1880)

faculty.georgetown.edu

141–150 of 258 posts

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#141

English pronunciation only vaguely follows word spelling and must be memorized in many cases. The classic phrase: "A rough-coated, dough-faced, thoughtful ploughman strode through the streets of Scarborough; after falling into a slough, he coughed and hiccoughed." shows how the "-ough" has no reasonable rule that can be used to determine word pronunciation, despite similar spelling. By comparison, spelling and word p…

The irony: despite Mark Twain's vicious rant, German is quite consistent on following the spelling, just like Spanish et al. That doesn't mean some phonemes aren't hard to pronounce for the uninitiated, nor does it exclude accents and dilects and the everyday contraptions of the language.

Was that true in his time, or has it changed as result of the frequent reforms that have occurred over the past century?

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#142
post #101

Unsurprisingly, there are many articles published about "The Awful English Language" , such as: [1], [2], [3] Some examples from [2]: Let's face it -- English is a crazy language. Besides the above, there is no egg in eggplant, nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren't invented in England or French fries in France. Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, which aren't sweet,…

Hamburger is "from Hamburg", not "made from ham", and is borrowed from German. "Frankfurter" (from Frankfurt) and "Wiener" (from Vienna, Wien, in German) have the same etymology. All languages have the sort of contradictions that are pointing out there, and English isn't especially bad (in fact, most of the examples there are directly inherited from German). Most of the difficult things in English come from it being…

> But, blessedly, English does have the simplest grammar of probably any European language.

The deceptive thing, though, is compound tenses and phrasal verbs; in both cases you express a meaning with multiple words that couldn't have been predicted from the meanings of the constituent words alone. These are both pervasive in English and both very tricky for learners, but they often don't feel like "grammar" because they're not inflectional. (Well, phrasal verbs are more like lexicon.)

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difficulty of mastering the tenses is something that I think a lot of English speakers overlook. There's a lot of really precise and difficult-to-explain subtleties in English. (Of course, English isn't unique in this regard -- but I feel like certain things are taken for granted). Something that catches a lot of English as second language people out is the correct time to use the gerund form (i.e., the '-ing' fo…

> She would have had to have been being watched. Well, now I want to see how this sentence would be translated into all the other major languages! I immediately understand the meaning, but can see why it might be hard for a non native speaker to understand. Are their other languages that can say the same thing as concisely? Google Translate must absolutely butcher this sentence. I just tried Spanish. “Habría tenido q…

I speak both English and Dominican Spanish natively. Here is my translation:

“Tendrían que haber estado mirándola.”

“Vigilado” is a much stronger word and to me it would be much more like “guarded”

Ive studied Chinese before and a translation eludes me.

If anybody can help, my guess the trick is in : “ 本来就” of 她本来就必须被监视

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difficulty of mastering the tenses is something that I think a lot of English speakers overlook. There's a lot of really precise and difficult-to-explain subtleties in English. (Of course, English isn't unique in this regard -- but I feel like certain things are taken for granted). Something that catches a lot of English as second language people out is the correct time to use the gerund form (i.e., the '-ing' fo…

> She would have had to have been being watched. Well, now I want to see how this sentence would be translated into all the other major languages! I immediately understand the meaning, but can see why it might be hard for a non native speaker to understand. Are their other languages that can say the same thing as concisely? Google Translate must absolutely butcher this sentence. I just tried Spanish. “Habría tenido q…

IMO the Google translation is almost correct. My take would be “Ella habría tenido que haber estado siendo observada”.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difficulty of mastering the tenses is something that I think a lot of English speakers overlook. There's a lot of really precise and difficult-to-explain subtleties in English. (Of course, English isn't unique in this regard -- but I feel like certain things are taken for granted). Something that catches a lot of English as second language people out is the correct time to use the gerund form (i.e., the '-ing' fo…

I very much agree with English being a hodgepodge of confusing rules, especially those tense-related. Re rewtriting (3) though: does not the following suffice? "She must have been being watched". I can imagine an argument that "She would have had to have" is not equivalent to "She must have" on grounds that the "have had" might suggest additionally that the past-ongoing-watching no longer occurs. I don't really think…

The "would" makes the claim conditional, so you can't get rid of it without potentially changing the meaning.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love that last example. I think "to have been being watched" is a bit of a reach though? "To have been observed / under observation" feels more natural. When translating it to french i got to "elle aurait dûe être observée". Incidentally, French has an easier time with this, I think because we have more options there. I couldn't reproduce the quirky structure at all, the flow is just more natural in french.

I could see saying "she'd had to have been watched" or "they had to have been watching her". Both sound very natural to my ear. Observed to me feels more like they're looking at every minute detail with some emotional distance and maybe a feeling of something novel. A scientist observes a rare bug walking on a leaf. A psychiatrist observes his patients' behaviors. It's maybe a more scientific and heavily detail-orien…

“Had to have been kidding” is a relatively common phrase.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#147

English pronunciation only vaguely follows word spelling and must be memorized in many cases. The classic phrase: "A rough-coated, dough-faced, thoughtful ploughman strode through the streets of Scarborough; after falling into a slough, he coughed and hiccoughed." shows how the "-ough" has no reasonable rule that can be used to determine word pronunciation, despite similar spelling. By comparison, spelling and word p…

The irony: despite Mark Twain's vicious rant, German is quite consistent on following the spelling, just like Spanish et al. That doesn't mean some phonemes aren't hard to pronounce for the uninitiated, nor does it exclude accents and dilects and the everyday contraptions of the language.

"...despite Mark Twain's vicious rant,"

I don't believe Mark Twain's Appendix D is vicious nor a rant. In fact, it is a brilliant piece of humorous writing in its own right and I would give a great deal to be able to write and communicate as well as that. Furthermore, having worked in both Austria and Germany I've known several native German speakers who are fluent in English and who laughed themselves almost hoarse after I brought it to their attention. They weren't a bit offended by it, they then pointed to the many peculiar idiosyncrasies of English and said that in any competition for same then English would likely be the winner. (BTW, you'll even find native German speakers reading The Awful German Language on Project Gutenberg.)

Moreover, I learned more about the German language from Twain's writing than I ever did from the equivalent number of words in any German language textbook written in English. Clearly, I cannot do justice in the space or time available but let me mention a few instances.

"These things are called "separable verbs." The German grammar is blistered all over with separable verbs; and the wider the two portions of one of them are spread apart, the better the author of the crime is pleased with his performance."

The 'REISTE AB'/'departed' example that Twain quotes is both humorous and very memorable: "The trunks being now ready, he DE- after kissing his mother ...more dearly than life itself, PARTED." After reading this it's almost impossible for someone who is learning the language to ever let separable verbs pass them by without noticing them.

"These things are not words, they are alphabetical processions."

Of course, they are. And as Twain points out they also possess 'perspective'—and many native German speakers would agree with this assessment, in fact some are quite bemused by the fact that their language has the world's longest words.

" Of course when one of these grand mountain ranges goes stretching across the printed page, it adorns and ennobles that literary landscape—but at the same time it is a great distress to the new student, for it blocks up his way; he cannot crawl under it, or climb over it, or tunnel through it. So he resorts to the dictionary for help, but there is no help there."

Not only is this wonderfully descriptive prose but it's in fact true. To prove the point, here are a few more that are not included in Twain's text:

Rechtsschutzversicherungsgesellschaften

Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän

Betäubungsmittelverschreibungsverordnung

Bezirksschornsteinfegermeister

Donaudampfschiffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft

Whew, that's 79 or 80 letters depending on which spelling one uses.

"One cannot overestimate the usefulness of SCHLAG and ZUG."

That's very true, and so are very useful (and somewhat tiny) words such as zu, bis and nach — that is, once one gets to understand their German nuances (initially their usage can be confusing—at least I found them to be so given that to, till and until in English are used in a somewhat less prescriptive way.

"The Germans do not seem to be afraid to repeat a word when it is the right one. They repeat it several times, if they choose."

Until I read this passage, it was never evident to me that we native English speakers actually go out of our way to avoid word repetition.

"In the daybeforeyesterdayshortlyaftereleveno'clock Night, the inthistownstandingtavern called 'The Wagoner' was downburnt. When the fire to the onthedownburninghouseresting Stork's Nest reached, flew the parent Storks away. But when the bytheraging, firesurrounded Nest ITSELF caught Fire, straightway plunged the quickreturning Mother-Stork into the Flames and died, her Wings over her young ones outspread."

Even the cumbersome German construction is not able to take the pathos out of that picture--indeed, it somehow seems to strengthen it. This item is dated away back yonder months ago. I could have used it sooner, but I was waiting to hear from the Father-stork. I am still waiting.

There are some German words which are singularly and powerfully effective. For instance, those which describe lowly, peaceful, and affectionate home life; those which deal with love, in any and all forms, from mere kindly feeling and honest good will toward the passing stranger, clear up to courtship; those which deal with outdoor Nature, in its softest and loveliest aspects—with meadows and forests, and birds and flowers, the fragrance and sunshine of summer, and the moonlight of peaceful winter nights; in a word, those which deal with any and all forms of rest, repose, and peace; those also which deal with the creatures and marvels of fairyland; and lastly and chiefly, in those words which express pathos, is the language surpassingly rich and affective. There are German songs which can make a stranger to the language cry. That shows that the sound of the words is correct—it interprets the meanings with truth and with exactness; and so the ear is informed, and through the ear, the heart."

With these wonderfully perceptive words, Twain not only shows us what a master he is at conveying his message but also that he is an acute observer of human nature. It is also indicative that his knowledge and fluency of German is higher than one may gather at first glance. Here, I can attest to the validity of what Twain says in respect of these German words. For instance, Schubert's remarkable song cycles Die schöne Müllerin (The Fair Maid of the Mill) and Die Winterreise ([the] Winter Journey) often reduce me to tears. Also, I find the pathos and heartfelt meaning of these words abundantly evident whenever I wander though a German Friedhof (cemetery). These powerful and yet unusually simple German words stare back from nearly every Grabstein if so as to remind one of one's own mortality.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#148
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hilarious that my compatriots try so hard to learn to pronounce the th when a good many brits just use an f sound.

How to Cockney speakers say words like "fifth" or "sixth" though? I've always wondered. Can't just be "fif", can it?

Fif and Sixf are heard enough here in America; enough that both fif and fifth sound fine to me.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#149
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hilarious that my compatriots try so hard to learn to pronounce the th when a good many brits just use an f sound.

How to Cockney speakers say words like "fifth" or "sixth" though? I've always wondered. Can't just be "fif", can it?

The BBC pronounces 'sixth' as though it was spelled 'sikth'

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#150
post #17

Unsurprisingly, there are many articles published about "The Awful English Language" , such as: [1], [2], [3] Some examples from [2]: Let's face it -- English is a crazy language. Besides the above, there is no egg in eggplant, nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren't invented in England or French fries in France. Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, which aren't sweet,…

If you look at an eggplant in its early stages, you will understand the name.

That was one weird word when I learned it in Korea, because Asian eggplants look nothing like eggs. They look more like zucchinis.

At least the US variant looks like giant purple eggs, if you squint a bit.

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