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Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

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Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#31

Post by jug »

jmclnx wrote: post #18

I wonder what would happen if Facebook choose to pull out of the EU with a large banner "Due to new EU regulations, we have to stop operations until regulations change". Would there be a large public outcry ? Me, I would like to see facebook, google, apple... reigned in, but they have a large bank account where that can "donate" to pols, so we will probably see a big loophole appear.

I use Facebook but them leaving EU would be amazing because I only use it to keep in touch with friends and family, and now they'd be forced off it. <3

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#32

Post by dylan604 »

messe wrote: post #17
trasz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect cases like this are a tiny minority. You could handle them by falling back to the current way of doing this, ie US servers, and still protect the vast majority of data that's not related to US citizens.

> I suspect cases like this are a tiny minority. Knowing people in other countries is a tiny minority? Maybe in the US, given its size, but it's pretty widespread and normal in Europe.

We're not talking about storing/transferring data between different countries within the EU though. The cross-the-pond-friendship example was only provided as an example of the topic at hand and not the fact that 'mericans don't have European friends.

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#34

Post by ta988 »

amelius wrote: post #12
twobitshifter wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, an American, have a friend in France, where is our friendship stored? I send a message to my friend in France they send me one back, where are these two messages stored? We have a photo taken while traveling together in Belgium with 2 other Americans, what server? I could see this being a problem only effectively solved by a separate EU and US Facebook. It is not clear what data they are worried about transmission…

> I, an American, have a friend in France, where is our friendship stored? Sounds almost philosophical. I have a friend. We both have brains. In which brain is our friendship stored?

Both, unless your "friend" does not consider you as a friend, in that case it is only in yours.

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#35

Post by wrren »

hirundo wrote: post #7

> The case stems from European Union concerns that United States government surveillance may not respect the privacy rights of EU citizens These are valid concerns that I share as a U.S. citizen concerned about my own privacy from government surveillance. It's appropriate for other countries to share them and to take action. But is it clear that government surveillance by EU countries is more respecting of privacy? I…

The difference is that, as an E.U citizen, the governments and agencies that might access this data, along with the laws that allow for that access, are ultimately accountable to me and my fellow citizens. If my data is transferred to the U.S, I have no ability to influence how it's used at all, I effectively have no rights.

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#36

Post by skinnymuch »

messe wrote: post #17
trasz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect cases like this are a tiny minority. You could handle them by falling back to the current way of doing this, ie US servers, and still protect the vast majority of data that's not related to US citizens.

> I suspect cases like this are a tiny minority. Knowing people in other countries is a tiny minority? Maybe in the US, given its size, but it's pretty widespread and normal in Europe.

I was initially thinking like you too. But it likely isn’t true.

With Facebook’s lowering importance and my self getting older, my interaction with non Americans has lowered. If we are talking about the EU only, the amount is minimal.

Thinking about others around me, most don’t have anything significant with EU residents or have one specific set of friendship[s] in the EU.

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#37

Post by [deleted] »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #27
messe wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect cases like this are a tiny minority. Knowing people in other countries is a tiny minority? Maybe in the US, given its size, but it's pretty widespread and normal in Europe.

> Knowing people in other countries is a tiny minority? Absolutely yes. Especially across two continents. Europeans who have friends from Europe would all be in Europe anyway. Europe is larger than US btw, it has two times the population. Russia+Turkey+Germany alone account for 95% of the population of the United States.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#38

Post by jpalomaki »

In modern cloud data is likely encrypted on disk and typically spread across servers. It’s not really feasible to access the data by physically taking control of the servers or disks.

Does the physical location really matter? If authorities need to access the data, they would anyways need a higher level access to it. In this sense it is more relevant who is controlling the data and where and under what jurisdiction that entity is located.

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#39

Post by londons_explore »

rich_sasha wrote: post #5

I can’t see why it would be devastating in practice. Why can’t the servers that deduce every little thing about the users be also based in EU? If I want a worldwide ad (is that even a thing?) for left-leaning horse owners between ages of 20-27.5 with a child and at least 2 partners, can’t that be dished out from an EU server for EU users?

> can’t see why it would be devastating in practice.

It's really hard to design systems split like that. There are so many corner cases. What when a user from the EU shares an image with a US group containing users from Australia. Where will the image be sent? Where will it be stored? What happens if the US members leave that group? Need the image be rehomed? What if at the moment that happens there is a trans oceanic bandwidth shortage/outage? Will there be a queue for rehoming images triggered by the final member of a group from a continent leaving the group?

To avoid all the complexity, 99% of 'distributed' systems have a 'master' for the data in just one place. I'm not sure there are any distributed datastores that are masterless outside academia.

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#40

Post by skinnymuch »

wrren wrote: post #35
hirundo wrote: post #7

> The case stems from European Union concerns that United States government surveillance may not respect the privacy rights of EU citizens These are valid concerns that I share as a U.S. citizen concerned about my own privacy from government surveillance. It's appropriate for other countries to share them and to take action. But is it clear that government surveillance by EU countries is more respecting of privacy? I…

The difference is that, as an E.U citizen, the governments and agencies that might access this data, along with the laws that allow for that access, are ultimately accountable to me and my fellow citizens. If my data is transferred to the U.S, I have no ability to influence how it's used at all, I effectively have no rights.

I’m an average random person. I have zero, even being high paranoia, of some other country surveilling me.

But my own country “spying” and surveilling me can be scary. They have a lot of power over me. My one voice isn’t important enough to change any legislation or actions. I doubt yours is either. If something unlucky happens with the surveillance of you in your country, you’re likely out of luck. OTOH, nothing happens if Russia or China surveils me (common boogeymen of the west)

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