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TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

reuters.com

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Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#401

Post by imtringued »

LatteLazy wrote: post #285
exporectomy wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already ran out of microns in the 1990's.

Silicon atoms are only 0.235nm apart. So at 1nm you only have 5 atoms left. At 0.2nm you have one atom lleft and it stops behaving like a semiconductor. So there are real physical limits to nm scale devices that don't apply to micron sized ones. Admittedly were not as close to those limits as it seems since "nm" quoted on CPUs etc is no longer a literal size of the object. But we're getting there...

>Admittedly were not as close to those limits as it seems since "nm" quoted on CPUs etc is no longer a literal size of the object. But we're getting there...

nm process numbers are based on the theoretical feature size that a planar transistor process would need to be equivalent to the used process. Since this number is purely theoretical the lower bound is zero, it can go well below the plank length.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#402

Post by [deleted] »

neonological wrote: post #200
scsilver wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California is one of the most economically richest places on earth, and I only say that from the point of view of a world traveler and without bias.

What I don't understand is how you think world traveler gives any credit or support for your stance. First the stronger point is made through evidence and the weaker point is made through reputation. Second of all, a "world traveler" is not really much of a reputable status that lends any additional weight to your thesis. California is rich. But California is trending down economically. This has been increasing for a…

[deleted]

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#403

Post by myrandomcomment »

ta_ca wrote: post #381
myrandomcomment wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is not, which is the reason it will end up in nukes. There are a ton of well researched papers on this. Taiwan is well dug in and any invasion perpetration would be seen months in advance. To be clear, if the USA defense of Taiwan leads to the extinction of the human race, so be it. We should have destroyed nazi germany in 1939. Fīat jūstitia ruat cælum. We are not worthy to survive if we do not defend democrac…

fuck china accounts or usa accounts. i myself never downvote a comment. you just broke all the rules of hackernews yet no mod here to flag/shadowban/warn you, how fair. you also discarded the entire human race based on your distorted ideas on good/bad yet here you are visible to all eyes.

This entire thread is about politics. First comments where about China threat to Taiwan. Second was about how Taiwan should not move fabs because keeping resources in Taiwan helps ensure US protection. Then there are people bashing on the EU (as why would you put fans there), the China Belt & Road, comments on Trump, etc. It is the nature of a thread like this on this topic. While you may not enjoy the nature of the discussion, the topic of how China handles Taiwan and the western reaction is a valid topic when talking about TSMC.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#404

Post by elefanten »

powerapple wrote: post #352
mschuster91 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> after probably many hundreds of thousands of Chinese dead due to choke points getting onto the island I wouldn't put it past China to simply flatten the entire island or at least everything surrounding these chokepoints with conventional bombs until submission and genocide whoever remains alive afterwards.

China does not want to take over Taiwan other than not having a non-US-ally close at door. Previous government of Taiwan had good relationship with China, although China didn't allow them to join WHO as an independent country, it did permit it to join WHA and WHO as a non-member state. China's trade deficit with Taiwan is tens of billions dollars every year. It is just that US's strategy of containing China works rea…

This is wholly contradicted by decades of Chinese statecraft and diplomacy, and more recently and directly by Xi’s repeated, insistent rhetoric about unification.

They badly want Taiwan. Not at any cost, but certainly at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives —- especially those of the ‘ungrateful’ and ‘unruly’ Taiwanese.

The existence of trade between them in no way contradicts those desires.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#405

Post by imtringued »

_the_inflator wrote: post #228

"European chip and auto companies, for their part, are mostly lined up against the idea. They would prefer subsidies for the older-generation chips that are heavily used by car manufacturers and are in short supply. Many of TSMC's most lucrative customers, such as Apple, are U.S.-based, while its European customer base is made up of mostly of automakers buying less-advanced chips." Oh boy... This is exactly why EU wi…

>"We don't need e mobility, we have the best combustion engines!" Tesla owns VW now.

VW is one of the biggest EV manufacturers. Maybe you should pick a different example.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#406

Post by PKop »

peteretep wrote: post #117
PKop wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you going to enlist to fight in a war to defend this territory that is magically claimed as a US state? What motivation will Americans have to fight and die for Taiwan? They will have none. >the US gets C'mon, this is not how geopolitics works. China could easily defend this land from US incursion and they aren't even letting Taiwan be independent let alone let US take it for themselves.

> What motivation will Americans have to fight and die for Taiwan? Well if the Yanks are smart, the second it becomes a US state you strongly encourage two way migration so there are a bunch of square-jawed, grass-fed, All American kids living there that the US press can get exited about. Jack, Diane, and Tyrone getting shot at by the PLA is going to be a Big Fucking Deal. Heck, if I was Taiwan I’d stop spending mone…

>the second it becomes a US state

Putting the cart before the horse, that US could occupy this land before China defends it. Also, this is such a nerd bro theory, as if only you are clever enough to see the game being played...the US government could somehow completely fool their citizens into being bait for a war, moving to a disputed territory that inevitably will be a battleground, or again that anyone on the mainland will suddenly want to die for newly settled territory, conned into war so to speak. These square-jawed, grass-fed people are just very stupid, is your claim?

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#407

Post by peoplefromibiza »

mrtksn wrote: post #131
lousken wrote: post #65

Is automotive industry all that EU cares about? What about IoT/robotics? The fact that TSMC want to build only their older fab here is really disappointing to me.

EU is loosely coupled peace union with a lot of sovereignty left to the individual states. If I remember correctly, ones Rupert Murdoch famously said that it’s impossible to find a phone number to call. So, It’s probably not up to the EU to care about automotive, that must be Germany. France and Spain likely cares about other things and no one cares about cutting edge chips. EU can push from the top by easing state a…

> If I remember correctly, ones Rupert Murdoch famously said that it’s impossible to find a phone number to call

Others have pointed out that the quote is false, but the real question is: why should EU answer to Murdoch phone calls?

He's just a billionaire with no political relevance.

People who really mattered had phone numbers to call, for example Henry Kissinger was a close friend of Gianni Agnelli, principal shareholder of FIAT.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#408

Post by Reason077 »

imtringued wrote: post #394
speleding wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biden promised $50 billion in subsidies for the industry, the EU does not have that kind of spending power, and (as a European) I'm happy they don't try to out-subsidise them. Chips are a global industry, so yes, the factories will end up there but we will be able to buy chips subsidised by US tax payers. Many economists would claim that business and citizens would be more likely to efficiently allocate that $50B the…

The problem with the chip industry is that it's not really a money maker. Yes you need factories in your own country but this is only because of national security, the actual economic benefit isn't the deciding factor. The chip shortage is creating an economic incentive to expand production capacity on its own, there is no need for subsidies but countries should accommodate new fabs by making them viable to build the…

> "there is no need for subsidies but countries should accommodate new fabs"

No chip factories get built in Europe or North America without significant subsidies.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#409

Post by peoplefromibiza »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #114
lousken wrote: post #65

Is automotive industry all that EU cares about? What about IoT/robotics? The fact that TSMC want to build only their older fab here is really disappointing to me.

The EU has also supplied both weapons and technology that are currently threatening Taiwan: https://www.businessinsider.com/european-companies-are-suppl... France alone was the #2 supplier from 2015-2019: https://euro-sd.com/2020/03/news/16688/sipri-biggest-arms-ex... You really can't blame Taiwan for not rushing to put its most cutting edge expertise in the EU.

TSMC buy their machinery from EU.

Their most cutting edge expertise is in good part made in EU.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#410

Post by elefanten »

bigfudge wrote: post #274
ChuckMcM wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This statement conflicts with my understanding of the British rule of Hong Kong and the accords under which is was placed under the sovereignty of China.

HK was always going g to be returned to the Chinese. It took 20 years for the charade to end, but the situation is different to Taiwan.

You’re not responding to the point. There was a clear deal in place regarding how China could govern/change Hong Kong, with strict timelines.

China broke its word and trashed the deal. Eventual certainty notwithstanding — the CCP demonstrated (as it has oh so many other times) that their word is unusually unreliable, even in the shitty arena of international politics.

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