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TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

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Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#311

does TSMC own any valuable tech? I thought they just purchase the machines from ASML, a dutch company. if there is market for chips, why doesn't some EU company set up a foundry in EU? I'm sure there are many capable companies and the lithography tech is already made in EU.

EUV machines are a small but critical part of overall 7nm and lower fabrication.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#312
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> shortwave radios? With no electrical power, no batteries? Nuclear retaliation might take 20 minutes. The diesel UPS will last that long. What would the aftermath look like months or years later, though? Big coal power plants might be targeted, but most solar panels will continue to work; those can run shortwave radios for decades, giving you transcontinental and intercontinental logistical coordination capabilities…

Your thinking has many curious gaps! e.g., I fail to see how "shortwave radios" would be particularly useful for the 20 minutes of "nuclear retaliation", Bitcoin transactions require networked computers which, again, won't be around w/o power/batteries, a working network, etc. Implementing the Haber-Bosch process requires very sophisticated engineering, machining and careful operation. Lots of trial and error is invo…

> I fail to see how "shortwave radios" would be particularly useful for the 20 minutes of "nuclear retaliation",

Correct, the fact that nuclear retaliation takes a few minutes, not months or years, means that your hypothetical disintegration scenario is irrelevant to my original point: in the event of a full-blown war between the USA and PRC, there will be no semiconductor fabs in the USA, foreign-owned or otherwise.

Nevertheless, I thought it was interesting to explore your postulated post-apocalyptic recapitulation of the Spring and Autumn Period, and shortwave radios are among the things that render it impossible.

I understand that it can be confusing to talk about two different hypothetical situations that happen at different times in the same hypothetical timeline. That's why I separated them into two paragraphs, with a one-sentence paragraph separating them, in order to keep you from confusing them: "The diesel UPS will last that long. What would the aftermath look like months or years later, though? Big coal power plants might be targeted, but most solar panels will continue to work; those can run shortwave radios for decades."

Perhaps repeating the point, as I have above, will have helped you to understand it better. I know it's confusing! But I have faith in you, Bunky!

> Bitcoin transactions require networked computers which, again, won't be around w/o power/batteries, a working network, etc.

This is not correct. Signing a Bitcoin transaction requires a computer, which does not have to be networked or powered on continuously. A small solar panel to charge your USB power bank is plenty of power. Once you have signed the transaction you do need to get it to the Bitcoin network somehow. Because it's a few hundred bytes and contains no secret data, you can base64 encode it and send it by skywave CW Morse code at 10 millibaud if you have to. Not that that would be necessary in practice.

> they're all in Beijing. Pollution is bad there already

It seems that your knowledge of current events in China is nearly as profound as your knowledge of cryptocurrencies, political science, and metallurgy.

> Why do I get the feeling I'm talking to a child who is fairly well-educated but has a patchy understanding of the real world, someone better at history than at science? Maybe someone who games a bit?

Probably because, being the person who said, "The CCP might survive somewhere but more likely would be snuffed out by the people, who would not appreciate the war the CCP had brought upon them," and "'smelt iron' with coal, maybe! Now you've got wrought iron, which is good for what, horseshoes?", you have no basis on which to judge my understanding except ego defense. And, I suppose, you're insecure enough about your maturity to imagine that likening someone a child is some kind of rhetorical power move that might compensate for your total lack of relevant knowledge and epistemic humility.

I did play D&D once, though, 30 years ago. And I played Settlers about once a month in the 02001-02006 period. So you're not entirely wrong.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#313

Geopolitically this makes a lot of sense. Will be interesting to see how China reacts as it moves forward. If Intel is serious this time about letting third parties into their fabs then it could be quite the reversal of fortune. However, as I've said in the past Intel is most likely to do this with "alternate" process streams, in order to not expose their full capabilities to competitors. High hopes but low expectati…

> Geopolitically this makes a lot of sense. Geopolitically it makes no sense. What exactly do they expect any much changing from thus move other than Samsung getting even more desperate, and Korea possibly moving closer to China if the next Korean president will be a gullible populist (which is now a close probability.) A lion share of high tech manufacturing happens in Taiwan-SK-Japan triangle, all within walking di…

>reachable by their nuclear weapons.

Nothing on earth does not fall in that category.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#314
post #307
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Please don't signal boost easily falsifiable claims like this. The function of it is to sow division and prevent proper nuanced discussion. The phone numbers on that page is a hotline for general questions. It is absolutely not the same thing as the point mrtksn's Murdoch quote mentioned. A media magnate like Murdoch has the phone number to the White House central switchboard and can get the President on the phone.…

That sounds like you paint corporate control over politicians in positive light. I am glad that American mogul don't have direct line (preferential treatment) to EU top level officials.

I would further that and say it's a good thing there is no "top" EU official - distributed governance makes this way more resilient, e.g. should the head honcho be a bad guy with a taste of dictatorship

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#316

does TSMC own any valuable tech? I thought they just purchase the machines from ASML, a dutch company. if there is market for chips, why doesn't some EU company set up a foundry in EU? I'm sure there are many capable companies and the lithography tech is already made in EU.

You don't just 'purchase machines' to magically create cutting edge semiconductors. If this were the case, why in the world would ASML be selling them to TSMC?

ASML's Q1 Net Revenue: $2.79 billion TSMC Q1 Net Revenue: $12.9 billion

Don't you think ASML would just pocket the world's semiconductor income if this were the case?

The machines are only a part of the equation. How you use the machines and the processes you develop to create cutting edge semiconductors are arguably the more important part of the equation. As someone else mentioned in the comments, think of it as the difference between being a chisel manufacturer and a master sculptor. The tools are only a part of the equation. The methods and processes developed by TSMC are valuable pieces of technology. This value has an additional moat surrounding it due to the astronomical capital investment required to use it.

Even if you knew of all of TSMC's process information, you wouldn't be able to use it without tens of billions of dollars in investments, many years of construction, an adequately skilled workforce and right customer contacts.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#317
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China will do everything it can to keep the factories in a war, it’s likely the US would offer a lot of Taiwanese US visas especially those in tech, it’s likely the Taiwanese people will have a general strike and the whole place will be very unpleasant to live in after probably many hundreds of thousands of Chinese dead due to choke points getting onto the island. It’s likely after an invasion most production for the…

>I can’t see how we can do business with a country that invaded a democratic country. Where do we draw the line? Because there is one country in the western world that would be banned from trade if destroying democracies are not allowed. It is also the only country in the world that has toppled governments so many times it has its own Wikipedia article. So unless you define it as only "full-scale invasion" the US wou…

As someone from Africa with knowledge of USA involvement in toppling some governments here, I sometimes wonder who's worst? A country I know for certain it has invaded unilaterally others (USA) or a country with potential of one day in the future for invading countries (China).

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#318
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Geopolitically this makes a lot of sense. Geopolitically it makes no sense. What exactly do they expect any much changing from thus move other than Samsung getting even more desperate, and Korea possibly moving closer to China if the next Korean president will be a gullible populist (which is now a close probability.) A lion share of high tech manufacturing happens in Taiwan-SK-Japan triangle, all within walking di…

>reachable by their nuclear weapons. Nothing on earth does not fall in that category.

Being reachable by ICBMs which are in hundreds, hard to hide, and easily trackable, vs regular theatre level ballistic missiles which are in thousands make a big difference.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#319
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Murdoch meant "who should I call to have the deals I want to make facilitated?" (to put it in PC terms)

Whether one thinks that Rupert Murdoch is a supervillain who manipulates politics in the UK and Australia as easily as a dog's owner gives orders to his pet, or merely an influential billionaire media mogul who gets the ear of world leaders like other billionaire media moguls, my point stands: There is no "there" in the EU for him to talk to.

Which is a good thing and one of the many differences between the EU and the US. Trump is known to be happy to give out his number to big tech which is absolutely anti-democratic as this is backaccess to power. It is on par with corruption in destroying democracies.
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