Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said • Hacker News Board

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#851

Post by codelord » Sat, May 15, 2021, 3:34 AM UTC

concordDance wrote: post #478

codelord wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally follow the CDC guidelines. I think if everyone equally trusted CDC we wouldn't have the kind of outbreaks that we have seen in the past year. So raising doubts in CDC's credibility overall is hurtful IMO. That doesn't mean we shouldn't debate a particular recommendation and take it all as Gospel. Meaningful debate about a particular issue is useful. A general statement against credibility of CDC IMO is n…

> I personally follow the CDC guidelines I don't believe you. Do you use a food thermometer when cooking food? Do you make sure to cook eggs until the yoke is firm? If you're a woman, do you make sure you never have more than 1 (alcoholic) drink in a particular day? Do you never eat rare steak? People ignore almost everything the CDC says in their regular lives as the CDC is completely optimizing for health, not qual…

Not sure why would you go and make a statement about me without any evidence (And btw yes to all your questions). Your point would be stronger if you don't target a person and maybe talk about the average consumer. My point exactly that a large chuck of the population don't follow CDC guidelines, if they did we collectively would be a healthier nation.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#852

Post by stolenmerch » Sat, May 15, 2021, 3:48 AM UTC

datagram wrote: post #806

stolenmerch wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no harm has been done This isn't the evaluation we're having though. If it was purely a personal choice to wear one or not then maybe. As it stands, most people were compelled by law to wear a mask under every circumstance whether it made sense or not. The argument quickly went from "wear a mask to protect yourself" to "everyone MUST wear a mask under every situation". It then split into two silly sides signally to…

> The argument quickly went from "wear a mask to protect yourself" That was never the argument. Wearing masks isn't about protecting yourself (only properly-fitted high-grade masks do that well, and regular people wearing those would have taken supply away from medical staff). Wearing masks is about protecting other people from you spreading the virus (which they do a decent job of when combined with distancing). The…

> That was never the argument.

Yes it was. It's easy to forget what the actual messaging was in the early days. Originally we were all talking about not using up medical masks or N95 masks, which were meant to "protect the wearer from contact with droplets and sprays that may contain germs."[1] Then we all switched to wearing these homemade masks and the messaging turned to wearing them was important to stop the spread to other people. And it had to be done in every single circumstance.

> Constant debating over which situations were safe or not for going maskless would have harmed our overall responnse to the virus.

That is legitimately up for debate. One could make a good case that a noble lie to the public does more harm because it erodes trust in the institution that fibbed in order to "keep it simple". Part of the reason we were in this mask controversy mess is because the authorities were saying one thing and scientist were saying other things in many cases. Not always, but in some cases.

[1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/i...

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#853

Post by HWR_14 » Sat, May 15, 2021, 3:53 AM UTC

stolenmerch wrote: post #766

ceejayoz wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As it stands, most people were compelled by law to wear a mask under every circumstance whether it made sense or not. The CDC's recommendations changed yesterday . It'll take a couple days for states to adjust accordingly.

Of course. I'm talking about the life we all had for over a year and some of the harm it did.

I'm sorry, what was the harm of wearing a mask? Like, if the US and CDC said "hey, the flu sucks - face masks are mandatory in any public space during the 3 months of flu season", what's the cost there? Other than the cost of the mask of course.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#854

Post by HWR_14 » Sat, May 15, 2021, 3:58 AM UTC

rsfern wrote: post #287

josephcsible wrote: post #254

I find it interesting that the people who screamed "trust/listen to the CDC!" the loudest when the CDC's position was "everyone wear your mask and stay home as much as you can" are now the ones looking hardest for reasons to ignore/downplay/criticize the CDC's guidance.

I think most probably have a more nuanced position than that. My personal hesitation is that people are just going to ignore the explicit condition of full vaccination. Worst case outcome could result in dragging the pandemic out and providing opportunity for new variants to develop. A concern closer to home is that this will increase risk for my parents, who have been hesitant about the mRNA vaccines and refuse J&J…

I'm not sure the cause of their concern with the J&J being produced with a fetal cell line, but the Catholic Church has some fairly vocal guidance on why the J&J vaccine is acceptable that address this.

Also, for the mRNA vaccine, you may want to emphasize that this is the result of several decades of research, not a one-year crash program in new technology.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#855

Post by cwyers » Sat, May 15, 2021, 4:00 AM UTC

daenz wrote: post #112

ineedasername wrote: post #91

I don't really understand how places looking to align their precautions with CDC guidelines can do this. We don't have any required vaccination "passport", so if a movie theatre says vaccinated customers don't have to wear masks, how can they possibly tell who is vaccinated without relying on a dubious honor system?

Devil's advocate: people who say "trust the science/scientists" should do so even when they themselves disagree. I don't know your position, but I have seen similar responses to yours from people who I know have taken the position of "trust the scientists." Don't you think that the smart folks at the CDC have gone through a similar thought process as you and are issuing these guidelines regardless? Why would we not t…

"The science" is not this monolith that stands on its own. The science behind this is the belief that fully vaccinated people are not significant spreaders of the disease. That is correct, and it's good for the CDC to recognize that. But it doesn't tell us anything about how easy it is to determine who is and isn't vaccinated and how to ensure compliance in the absence of a "vaccine passport."

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#856

Post by gdubs » Sat, May 15, 2021, 4:00 AM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #842

gdubs wrote: post #737

My biggest question right now is with my kids who are 7 and under. But also just kids in general. Mainly I’m wondering what kind of evolutionary pressure will be put onto the virus in a population where young children represent a larger and larger target for the virus as adults become vaccinated. Not fear-mongering. It just seems like we still don’t have a good explanation of why kids have (mostly) been spared, and s…

> low risk != low risk What does this mean?

Autocorrected ‘low risk != no risk’

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#857

Post by HWR_14 » Sat, May 15, 2021, 4:07 AM UTC

kiawe_fire wrote: post #283

2trill2spill wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, as someone who got vaccinated the first day it was available to all adults in Utah(3/24), I'm surprised that this news changed any ones mind. But either way I'm glad it did!.

It seems pretty logical to me. Every decision is a risk/reward calculation. The vaccine does carry the risk of side effects and adverse reactions. That risk, for most, is VERY small. But if the person in question also has very low risk of contracting or spreading Covid (works from home, rarely goes out, young, healthy) and if being vaccinated doesn’t actually enable you to live any differently than you already are, t…

If you were in a very low risk group, I can see delaying taking the vaccine to avoid blocking a higher risk person. Absent that I truly don't understand declining any of the vaccines for COVID. The risk of serious side effects is negligible. Meanwhile, every day you are alive you move into a higher risk group both for COVID and for longer recovery of mild side effects. So why wait?

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#858

Post by HWR_14 » Sat, May 15, 2021, 4:10 AM UTC

sterlind wrote: post #195

salamanderman wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pfizer and Moderna are both effective to within the mid-high 90's, was my understanding.

the thing that scares me is that Pfizer is "only" ~75% against B.1.351. I'm not worried right now, and I've relaxed a ton since before, but I'm nervous that B.1.351 and other vaccine-resistant strains will rise to prominence once enough people are vaccinated.

Wait, Pfizer is only ~75% effective against B.1.351? Can you provide a source. I was not aware of that and it's worrisome.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#859

Post by stolenmerch » Sat, May 15, 2021, 5:01 AM UTC

HWR_14 wrote: post #853

stolenmerch wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. I'm talking about the life we all had for over a year and some of the harm it did.

I'm sorry, what was the harm of wearing a mask? Like, if the US and CDC said "hey, the flu sucks - face masks are mandatory in any public space during the 3 months of flu season", what's the cost there? Other than the cost of the mask of course.

It's not the mask that does harm. It's the temptation by authorities to make blanket mandates that can easily encroach too far in an effort to cover as many scenarios as possible for legal purposes. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's just in their best interests to make it as easy as possible to interpret and enforce. It's also not at all cut-and-dried what a "public space" is, so that's a bitter argument that will be had. There is a lot of public space that is wide-open and sparsely travelled. Does this need a mandatory mask mandate? If we were all perfectly rational this would not be that difficult, but we're not.

Given current and recent events in the U.S., it's also probably best not to give the police even more reason to be able to stop and question folks for what is a very minor infraction. With something like mask mandates, it's a highly visible signal that must be obeyed by every single person, so it's prone to enforcement abuse. In general, it's just not worth it to get flu numbers down, particularly when we weren't really scared as a society about the flu before now. As always, if you're sick stay home or even wear a mask out. Laws to enforce this? Not so much.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#860

Post by garmaine » Sat, May 15, 2021, 7:11 AM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #357

garmaine wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is false. We've eradicated SARS-CoV-1, for example. The last case was in 2004. And New Zealand, Australia, and Taiwan outright eliminated COVID community spread domestically (Australia did it twice!), proving it is possible.

I thought with SARS-CoV-1, no people have it, but animals still do, and it could jump back to people from them, so it isn't considered eradicated yet. And stopping community spread in a few countries is totally different than global eradication.

Moving goalposts...