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Mammals can absorb oxygen through their intestines

sciencemag.org

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Re: Mammals can absorb oxygen through their intestines

#61

Post by eigenspace »

x3iv130f wrote: post #49
Judgmentality wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hunch future generations will look back on our animal experimentation similar to how we look back on human experimentation, horrified but with a silver lining (and most people just prefer not to think about it much at all). I'm very much against both, but I recognize the important advances they've made for medicine. I also recognize that most of the advances for animals don't translate to humans, and some ev…

Nazi human experimentation was torture done under the auspices of junk-science. It was recognized as such even by the people of that time period. Nothing that they studied is taught in science programs anywhere today.

While the theories they developed were junk, both Nazi and Imperial Japanese torture experiments play a big role in our modern safety standards and guidelines.

E.g. modern guidelines on how long a human can be safely exposed to cold, or how much blood they can lose were founded on data the USA took from Japanese researches in exchange for pardons.

Re: Mammals can absorb oxygen through their intestines

#62

Post by fsloth »

bluemania wrote: post #2

Scuba diving just became more interesting

I was thinking of the old aspiration of filling up the lungs of divers with the oxygen carrying fluorocarbon fluid (like in Abyss). It was deemed apparently impractical because it's too hard to breath. Well... you don't need to breathe with this.

Re: Mammals can absorb oxygen through their intestines

#63

Post by andi999 »

newsbinator wrote: post #24
keiferski wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is estimated that the annual use of vertebrate animals—from zebrafish to non-human primates—ranges from tens to more than 100 million.[2] In the European Union, vertebrate species represent 93% of animals used in research, and 11.5 million animals were used there in 2011. By one estimate the number of mice and rats used in the United States alone in 2001 was 80 million.[3] Mice, rats, fish, amphibians and reptil…

After all this time, I still have no idea how I feel about tortuous animal testing for medical breakthroughs. It's a trolley problem with an unknown number of people on Track A and an unknown number of animals on Track B. I don't even know how I feel about replacing animals in these experiments with human violent offenders. Can we justify experimenting on a known serial killer if the experiment will save a million ch…

Maybe you find a society where they are fine to do human experiments. If the tide turns though when you were doing your experiments make sure you still can escape to Argentina to avoid trial. (although after the fall of junta nowadays Argentina might not be safe anymore). Seems like you are just 80 years to late with that idea.

Re: Mammals can absorb oxygen through their intestines

#64

Post by criley2 »

rajin444 wrote: post #33
keiferski wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wait until genetic modification becomes available on the black market. Then things will get really interesting.

Maybe we'll finally start addressing real unearned privilege: genetic. Pro sports players didn't do anything to earn the genetic makeup which accounts for a significant portion of their ability, yet they aren't asked to acknowledge it and take steps to reduce its impact.

>Pro sports players didn't do anything to earn the genetic makeup which accounts for a significant portion of their ability, yet they aren't asked to acknowledge it and take steps to reduce its impact.

Big Harrison Bergeron vibes here.

"In the year 2081, the 211th, 212th, and 213th amendments to the Constitution dictate that all Americans are fully equal and not allowed to be smarter, better-looking, or more physically able than anyone else. The Handicapper General's agents enforce the equality laws, forcing citizens to wear "handicaps": masks for those who are too beautiful, loud radios that disrupt thoughts inside the ears of intelligent people, and heavy weights for the strong or athletic."

Re: Mammals can absorb oxygen through their intestines

#65

Post by drenvuk »

newsbinator wrote: post #24
keiferski wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is estimated that the annual use of vertebrate animals—from zebrafish to non-human primates—ranges from tens to more than 100 million.[2] In the European Union, vertebrate species represent 93% of animals used in research, and 11.5 million animals were used there in 2011. By one estimate the number of mice and rats used in the United States alone in 2001 was 80 million.[3] Mice, rats, fish, amphibians and reptil…

After all this time, I still have no idea how I feel about tortuous animal testing for medical breakthroughs. It's a trolley problem with an unknown number of people on Track A and an unknown number of animals on Track B. I don't even know how I feel about replacing animals in these experiments with human violent offenders. Can we justify experimenting on a known serial killer if the experiment will save a million ch…

>Can we justify experimenting on a known serial killer if the experiment will save a million children's lives in the next 10 years? I don't know.

How is that a question? Of course it's justifiable. Valuing the life of someone who only sees humans as play things rather than a collective is silly. Remove them for the greater good.

>If an alien species were using us for their medical experiments, under the same circumstances and conditions, then what would I say?

This can be answered with the same logic. I say this with all seriousness, if you are not a speciesist with a heavy bent towards humanity and our continued survival as a group you should really consider scaling back your empathy for the sake of practicality.

Re: Mammals can absorb oxygen through their intestines

#66

Post by huitzitziltzin »

Ralfp wrote: post #46
ihaveajob wrote: post #39

It's only a matter of time before this is used as a standard performance enhancement trick for endurance sports. Only saying this half-jokingly.

„It was found that John Doe took liquid-oxygen enema before run, unfairly improving his performance.”

Given that liquid oxygen boils at about -300 F, if John Doe can finish a race after a liquid oxygen enema he deserves first prize for something!

Re: Mammals can absorb oxygen through their intestines

#67

Post by miles »

standardUser wrote: post #3

Two things really stood out in this article. One is how brutal animal experimentation can be. The other is the opening line.

> how brutal animal experimentation can be.

Mark Twain expressed it rather succinctly[1]:

"I believe I am not interested to know whether Vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't. To know that the results are profitable to the race would not remove my hostility to it. The pains which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity towards it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further."

[1] https://books.google.com/books?id=-cq4AQAAQBAJ&pg=PA238

Re: Mammals can absorb oxygen through their intestines

#68

Post by david-gpu »

keiferski wrote: post #32
newsbinator wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After all this time, I still have no idea how I feel about tortuous animal testing for medical breakthroughs. It's a trolley problem with an unknown number of people on Track A and an unknown number of animals on Track B. I don't even know how I feel about replacing animals in these experiments with human violent offenders. Can we justify experimenting on a known serial killer if the experiment will save a million ch…

Having read a bit about it, my position is something like: - Experiments are way too common and mostly have useless/unusable outcomes. - Ethical standards are basically nonexistent. - Limited animal testing for serious human conditions (cancer, disease, etc.) is justifiable if great care is taken to maximize the benefits and minimize animal suffering.

I am also all for protecting animals... until grandma is sick and could be cured only if we experiment a little more on rats. When that happens the life of a rat or a million looks disposable.

Re: Mammals can absorb oxygen through their intestines

#69

Post by f6v »

newsbinator wrote: post #24
keiferski wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is estimated that the annual use of vertebrate animals—from zebrafish to non-human primates—ranges from tens to more than 100 million.[2] In the European Union, vertebrate species represent 93% of animals used in research, and 11.5 million animals were used there in 2011. By one estimate the number of mice and rats used in the United States alone in 2001 was 80 million.[3] Mice, rats, fish, amphibians and reptil…

After all this time, I still have no idea how I feel about tortuous animal testing for medical breakthroughs. It's a trolley problem with an unknown number of people on Track A and an unknown number of animals on Track B. I don't even know how I feel about replacing animals in these experiments with human violent offenders. Can we justify experimenting on a known serial killer if the experiment will save a million ch…

> Can we justify experimenting on a known serial killer if the experiment will save a million children's lives in the next 10 years?

I mean, for one thing you can’t breed transgenic killers with a desired genotype by the millions.

> If an alien species were using us for their medical experiments, under the same circumstances and conditions, then what would I say?

That’s too hypothetical. Aliens will be more similar to their native fauna genetically then to us.

Re: Mammals can absorb oxygen through their intestines

#70

Post by Judgmentality »

genericone wrote: post #58
Judgmentality wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hunch future generations will look back on our animal experimentation similar to how we look back on human experimentation, horrified but with a silver lining (and most people just prefer not to think about it much at all). I'm very much against both, but I recognize the important advances they've made for medicine. I also recognize that most of the advances for animals don't translate to humans, and some ev…

The japanese experiments on human beings were just as bad or worse: body part swaps, person merging, survival time studies for various death scenarios, there was a lot of extremely messed up stuff.

Yep. I'm not sure how pervasive it is, but there are leaks of medical experiments being done on Uighurs today in China (including experimental coronavirus vaccines).

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-xinjiang...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/china-forcing-experimental-cor...

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