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Lima: Linux-on-Mac

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Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#51
With time, difference between Apple devices and the Playstation is shrinking. I am fine with using any OS that gives me a terminal emulator with vim and unixy friends.

However, I detest artificial platform limitations and software that wants to "nudge" and manipulate users, hostile defaults and "optimized expiriences".

My last used Apple device was from 2015.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#52
post #13

It's just a "better integrated" virtual machine: "Lima launches Linux virtual machines on macOS" This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering. As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This Lima thing, docker running in a virtual machine, Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer mu…

"why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done?" Depends on the developer. How many developers use awk and grep? Most web developers probably have touched them once and never used them again, and prefer using MacOS compared to fighting Windows to do their web dev. Making a blanket statement that doing any development requires "fighting MacOS" is silly.

I develop backend (services and other infra-y things) and ML systems on a MacBook Pro. I use awk, grep, find, cut, sort, etc. frequently (awk and grep daily).

They work fine. And I really enjoy developing on my laptop.

I was forever the biggest anti-Apple, anti-M$, pro Linux “fanboy” you could imagine until a year ago or so. So it’s quite new to me really.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#53
post #10

I always thought “Windows Subsystem for Linux” was phrased backwards and should have been “Linux Subsystem for Windows”. It threw me for a loop when I read that phrasing on the readme.

I think it's ambiguous either way.

I think 'Windows subsystem' is, but I agree with GP about 'for Linux'.

I'd go with either 'WS of L', 'WLS', 'LWS', or 'LS for W'.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#54
post #13

It's just a "better integrated" virtual machine: "Lima launches Linux virtual machines on macOS" This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering. As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This Lima thing, docker running in a virtual machine, Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer mu…

Long time Linux user and also long time macos user. I've never had any problems getting "basic things done" on either platform. Except for Linux, which has inferior applications for most things.

I think where macOS shines is it's standardization of things beyond the unix terminal.

(I'm also a big fan of the hardware. 2019 macbook has been the best laptop I've owned so far)

In terms of fighting the OS, I don't know where that comes from.

Anything cli you generally use sudo, anything else you open the security settings and tick some boxes. I don't even have to type my password, I just touch the finger print reader. Then the program works forever. (I have a keybinding to open security settings too, so it only takes maybe 5 seconds most of the time)

I honestly don't know what people are fighting, unless they just really hate clicking through a few menus.

One key piece of advice I follow is NEVER update to the latest new OS version. Almost every person I know does and they run into crazy issues that shouldn't even be problems. I'm not going to be your free QA engineer, Apple.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#55
post #30
post #13

It's just a "better integrated" virtual machine: "Lima launches Linux virtual machines on macOS" This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering. As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This Lima thing, docker running in a virtual machine, Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer mu…

As a longtime macOS user and an ex-Linux user, I believe for many the idea goes the other way around. Why fight to keep your linux installation working? MacOS has worked nearly unconfigured for me for almost a decade now.

That's fine if you're content with whatever changeable (just not by you) defaults.

I use both, but mostly Linux, and macOS is way more of a 'battle' because something I have set to behave how I want it to will suddenly stop working, or have been barely possible (e.g. window managers) in the first place.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#56
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long time Linux user and also long time macos user. I've never had any problems getting "basic things done" on either platform. Except for Linux, which has inferior applications for most things.

I've been using Debian almost-exclusively since 2001. A new job requires that I work on MacOS, which has been fun. The primary things that I am struggling with are the keybindings and loss of true fluxbox sloppy focus. zsh and the BSD tools take a little getting used to (different ps, grep, sed, etc?), but are quite serviceable. But lordy, do I wish I could hit windows-A at any time and instantly get a new terminal,…

> wish I could hit windows-A at any time and instantly get a new terminal

You can create your own macOS native workflows with Automator and launch them with macOS keyboard shortcuts. It's all built right in.

https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch002051.htm

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#57
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done?" Depends on the developer. How many developers use awk and grep? Most web developers probably have touched them once and never used them again, and prefer using MacOS compared to fighting Windows to do their web dev. Making a blanket statement that doing any development requires "fighting MacOS" is silly.

That was just an example though. My point was that you're constantly fighting an operating system that's clearly not designed for you ( the developer ).

Can you list a few more examples of fighting things?

I'm using a macbook as a dev machine, and I've genuinely never been so productive in my career.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#58
post #13

It's just a "better integrated" virtual machine: "Lima launches Linux virtual machines on macOS" This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering. As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This Lima thing, docker running in a virtual machine, Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer mu…

I have two MacBooks now given to me by work. I loathe these things. The two finger scroll is awful. I'm constantly getting what feels like palm rejection mid-scroll. Everything is mouse driven, including split windows and if you want to use your mouse to split your windows it shifts the window and you over to a new virtual desktop. MacOS is constantly roosterblocking me from installing any apps not from the App Store. If I connect it to my little HDMI type-C dock that hooks me into my multi-monitor setup, then leave it to sleep it will begin making a chime saying it can't provide power to my peripherals.

Docker is awful on it, (yes that's what ssh is for), devland in general is awful on it. It feels like I'm using an overwrought iOS interface.

The trackpad is obnoxiously large. There's no reason for it to be so large. My XPS 13 Developer Edition's trackpad legitimately feels as good and leagues better as far as scrolling goes.

There's also some huge performance issues if you upgrade Catalina to Big Sur and you use a model with hybrid graphics. Like out of the box, upgrade, bam issues.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#59
post #13

It's just a "better integrated" virtual machine: "Lima launches Linux virtual machines on macOS" This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering. As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This Lima thing, docker running in a virtual machine, Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer mu…

Here's why I moved away from Linux to macOS: - I'm sorry, but no Linux DE I've ever used beats macOS in terms of stability. The file explorers are also a joke and frequently changing. - I've never booted to a black screen when upgrading macOS. - 99% of the work I do never needs anything that has to be virtualized under macOS. - Macbooks are solid laptops. Every other laptop I've owned hasn't stood the test of time as…

There are many ways macOS improves over Linux desktops, but file explorers is not one of the arguments I would have made. Finder is practically unusable.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a Macbook Pro for development. I spend a fair amount of time in Linux servers. Running a Linux VM for local development of things that require Linux doesn't bother me. I don't have to fight my OS. It works with my brain. When I'm using awk and grep, it's in Linux, not macOS. Not judging you or your opinion here - just explaining that I'm as bewildered by your experience as you are by mine.

>I don't have to fight my OS. It works with my brain. I think that's a mantra that applies a little better to Linux than it does MacOS. Linux is well known for it's customization, and you can really pad out your desktop to be an ergonomic and customized place designed for you. MacOS, on the other hand, is practically the definition of fighting your OS: you aren't allowed to have a proper package manager, Apple has to…

Linux is more customisable, but macOS is much, much better out of the box. I use both every day for about the same amount of time, and macOS requires much less fighting to get the basics right (i.e. networking and Bluetooth just works, no need to tinker with X or Wayland, printing is much less problematic, OS updates are non-events, etc). I am happy to use Linux at work, but I would never put it on my main computer at home. It’s just too much trouble.

> you aren't allowed to have a proper package manager

I don’t know why you say that there is no package manager. This is demonstrably false. It’s just a different update mechanism than the core OS, which hasn’t been a problem for about a decade.

> Apple has to drip-feed you old coreutils through their notoriously slow XCode service

The old coreutils are the result of GPLv3. Latest versions are one command away with your package manager of choice.

> now you aren't even allowed to use a VPN without Apple disabling it on some of their apps

If you’re alluding to the Little Snitch thing, it had nothing to do with VPNs, and has been fixed AFAIK.

Honestly, your points sound like third-hand complaints you’ve heard in an echo chamber. It’s fine if you don’t want to use the OS, but then you don’t need to comment either.

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