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Lima: Linux-on-Mac

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Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#31

Post by gjsman-1000 »

grawprog wrote: post #23
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has always made it clear that they care about the experience of their users, not the developers. Because the customers are there, the developers follow. That's just how it works unfortunately. Also, clearly not designed for you? You can install Brew to have a package manager, Magnet to add Window snapping for a dollar, you can make it fit your use case for not that much effort or money. You don't have to use va…

> to add Window snapping for a dollar You have to pay extra for basic window manager features on macos? How is that even caring about the experience of users let alone devs?

Apple clearly has evaluated Window Snapping and decided not to add it for whatever reason. Rumor has it Microsoft patented it.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#32

Post by mixmastamyk »

jeremyjh wrote: post #11
user3939382 wrote: post #4

I always thought “Windows Subsystem for Linux” was phrased backwards and should have been “Linux Subsystem for Windows”. It threw me for a loop when I read that phrasing on the readme.

Well, "Windows Subsystem" is a term that has existed for like 25 years; the kernel design for NT included this idea of subsystems that could provide compatibility layers or other functionality at a lower level of abstraction than a user-space library. They thought they needed this when they splintered from the partnership with IBM in the OS/2 project. In the early days of Windows NT, Windows Subsystems for OS/2 and f…

Not with Windows shoehorned into the front? They were called “the X subsystem.”

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#33

Post by Naac »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #20
Naac wrote: post #13

It's just a "better integrated" virtual machine: "Lima launches Linux virtual machines on macOS" This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering. As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This Lima thing, docker running in a virtual machine, Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer mu…

"I Just recently I learned you can't add more swap ( creating a swap file and adding it ). That seems incredible to me." At what point are you just approaching MacOS with the wrong mindset? MacOS isn't something you should or need to manage swap for or should really think about. It's the same reason you don't think about managing swap on Windows or your iPhone or your Android or your Smart TV.

> MacOS isn't something you should or need to manage swap for

I would 100% agree with you with regards to most macOS users. But as a software dev of course this is something you might have to do every once in a while.

The fact that you can't doesn't seem to align with the fact that macOS is the operating system of choice for software devs.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#34

Post by gjsman-1000 »

smoldesu wrote: post #26
bovermyer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a Macbook Pro for development. I spend a fair amount of time in Linux servers. Running a Linux VM for local development of things that require Linux doesn't bother me. I don't have to fight my OS. It works with my brain. When I'm using awk and grep, it's in Linux, not macOS. Not judging you or your opinion here - just explaining that I'm as bewildered by your experience as you are by mine.

>I don't have to fight my OS. It works with my brain. I think that's a mantra that applies a little better to Linux than it does MacOS. Linux is well known for it's customization, and you can really pad out your desktop to be an ergonomic and customized place designed for you. MacOS, on the other hand, is practically the definition of fighting your OS: you aren't allowed to have a proper package manager, Apple has to…

Linux users clearly have an echo chamber too.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#35

Post by dreamer7 »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #16
Naac wrote: post #13

It's just a "better integrated" virtual machine: "Lima launches Linux virtual machines on macOS" This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering. As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This Lima thing, docker running in a virtual machine, Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer mu…

Long time Linux user and also long time macos user. I've never had any problems getting "basic things done" on either platform. Except for Linux, which has inferior applications for most things.

Would you call tethering your Android phone via USB to your laptop a basic thing? Recently, I was having trouble with my phone's WiFi hotspot and tried to tether via USB. The only solution was Horndis, a 3rd party kernel extension. I quickly became knowledgeable about kexts and csrutil, rebuilt a kernel extension for M1 architecture and gave up after several hours of frustration. It's ridiculous that Apple can get away with being so closed

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#36

Post by Toutouxc »

Naac wrote: post #13

It's just a "better integrated" virtual machine: "Lima launches Linux virtual machines on macOS" This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering. As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This Lima thing, docker running in a virtual machine, Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer mu…

Oh I'm not fighting my OS to get basic things done, also I can't remember the last time I used awk. I use grep often, but I'm okay with whatever version I have (apparently it's BSD grep 2.5.1).

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#37

Post by mixmastamyk »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #17
Naac wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was just an example though. My point was that you're constantly fighting an operating system that's clearly not designed for you ( the developer ).

Apple has always made it clear that they care about the experience of their users, not the developers. Because the customers are there, the developers follow. That's just how it works unfortunately. Also, clearly not designed for you? You can install Brew to have a package manager, Magnet to add Window snapping for a dollar, you can make it fit your use case for not that much effort or money. You don't have to use va…

You can’t stop dozens of chatty network services, due to a read only system partition. Without defeating other security that is. That’s a poor design.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#38

Post by krono »

tgv wrote: post #6
phamilton wrote: post #2

Is IO still going to be horrible here? Docker on a linux VM, with all code on the linux VM, is significantly faster than Docker for Mac. Generally just because of IO.

IO in Docker has improved greatly, some 6 months or so ago.

The increasing amount of unexplainable hangs and crashes has since offset any of those improvements many times over.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#39

Post by gjsman-1000 »

dreamer7 wrote: post #35
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long time Linux user and also long time macos user. I've never had any problems getting "basic things done" on either platform. Except for Linux, which has inferior applications for most things.

Would you call tethering your Android phone via USB to your laptop a basic thing? Recently, I was having trouble with my phone's WiFi hotspot and tried to tether via USB. The only solution was Horndis, a 3rd party kernel extension. I quickly became knowledgeable about kexts and csrutil, rebuilt a kernel extension for M1 architecture and gave up after several hours of frustration. It's ridiculous that Apple can get aw…

Or maybe it's ridiculous that Google leaves this "basic feature" to Horndis and doesn't make a nice way to do it themselves. Which is telling on how "basic" this feature is and how many people actually use it in the real world. I wouldn't call it a basic thing.

Re: Lima: Linux-on-Mac

#40

Post by kergonath »

Naac wrote: post #13

It's just a "better integrated" virtual machine: "Lima launches Linux virtual machines on macOS" This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering. As a developer, why do you want to fight your operating system to get basic things done? This Lima thing, docker running in a virtual machine, Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer mu…

> This might be a controversial opinion, but I find developers flocking to macOS really bewildering.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but it is a good platform to work on. A real UNIX underneath, with a great GUI on top. Most things that run on Linux a recompile away from working natively, and still native versions of Office and such.

> This Lima thing

It is a VM to run Linux. How is that a demonstration that the OS is hostile?

> docker running in a virtual machine

This hasn’t much to do with the OS. OTOH if you want Linux containers, then I don’t see how you can avoid using a VM somewhere.

> Apple being actively hostile with the default coreutils requiring you to layer multiple third party tools just to get a modern version of awk and grep.

The versions of the GNU tools are ancient because they are pre-GPLv3. The BSD tools are more up to date. In any case, you can just do what you’d do on Linux and use a package manager.

> I Just recently I learned you can't add more swap ( creating a swap file and adding it ). That seems incredible to me.

What is the use case for this? The OS just adds some swap by himself, no need to mess around

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