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Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

nytimes.com

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Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#581

Post by slowmotiony »

_euac wrote: post #412
throwkeep wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's a publicly visible political statement and tribal signaling. What the MAGA hat was for the right, the mask is for the left.

This is such a bullshit strawman. Most of my friends are family are very liberal. Most of them are already vaccinated. Not a single one of them wants to wear a mask unless absolutely necessary and everyone is ready for this to be over.

If they've been vaccinated and still insist on wearing the masks, I kinda think you're proving OP's point here. What do you even mean with "waiting for this to be over"? You're vaccinated, it's over, are you now waiting for a super-vaccine or something?

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#582

Post by DanBC »

anoncake wrote: post #580
scrollaway wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the fuck? You're aware that we vaccinate children for a lot of things, right? It's not evil, it's common sense. COVID may be the first pandemic you've lived through/remembered, but it's not the first pandemic, and there are far more dangerous diseases out there we don't want coming back. I was vaccinated as a child of things i am still immune to today.

> You're aware that we vaccinate children for a lot of things, right? Yes. So they don't get sick, i.e. it's for their own benefit.

We also vaccinate them so they don't infect people who can't be vaccinated.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#583

Post by DanBC »

anoncake wrote: post #530
stjohnswarts wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids are more likely to die in the car/bus on the way to school than by covid. Still it's good to get them vaccinated so they don't end up killing older people.

Forcing children (or anyone really) to undergo a medical procedure for the benefit of other people is evil.

Children grow into adults. We're protecting those future adults.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#584

Post by LordAtlas »

concordDance wrote: post #478
codelord wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally follow the CDC guidelines. I think if everyone equally trusted CDC we wouldn't have the kind of outbreaks that we have seen in the past year. So raising doubts in CDC's credibility overall is hurtful IMO. That doesn't mean we shouldn't debate a particular recommendation and take it all as Gospel. Meaningful debate about a particular issue is useful. A general statement against credibility of CDC IMO is n…

> I personally follow the CDC guidelines I don't believe you. Do you use a food thermometer when cooking food? Do you make sure to cook eggs until the yoke is firm? If you're a woman, do you make sure you never have more than 1 (alcoholic) drink in a particular day? Do you never eat rare steak? People ignore almost everything the CDC says in their regular lives as the CDC is completely optimizing for health, not qual…

Those are FDA guidelines, not CDC.

And the word is "yolk", not "yoke".

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#585

Post by throwaway4good »

ddxxdd wrote: post #428
cycomanic wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this gets repeated a lot, but that doesn't make it more true. Show me the quote where he said "we lied about masks", and "we changed our message about masks" doesn't count. The reality is that the knowledge about Covid changed significantly in march/April last year. In particular the understanding about unsymptomatic spread lead to a significant change of thinking. That makes sense, if the virus only spreads f…

2 weeks of asymptomatic spread has been known about since late January (edit: in 2020). [0] And Fauci said at one point (2/14/2020): “There is no reason for anyone right now in the United States, with regard to coronavirus, to wear a mask” [1] And at another point (6/15/2020): "[...] we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal pro…

Back in January 2020 for every medical authority saying that the virus is airborne there was at least one saying: We expect this to be similar to a harsh flu season at worst, at best the virus will burn out locally.

It takes time for knowledge to get formulated, broadly accepted, and turn into actual policy. It has to be like that. Most of the time, being prepared but doing nothing is the best thing to.

SARS, H1N1, Ebola + probably many others all burned out before they reached the west.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#586

Post by ddxxdd »

brobdingnagians wrote: post #552
hellbannedguy wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fauci, and way too many Medical Doctors, seemed guenuinly confused over the efficacy of wearing a mask to prevent the spread of he Covid virus. A lot medical professionals were claiming the average person wearing a mask will make things worse by putting it on ineffectively. I heard one doctor say, "All it takes is one virus particle to become infected. I haven't heard any doctor talk about Viral Loads, even now. My p…

The strange thing is that we have loads of research done over decades about all of this. It appears that the prominent doctors on the news don't know anything about it. Everything pumped out for publicity is about a sixth grade understanding of biology and epidemiology; but we know a lot more, it's just that Fauci doesn't talk about it and neither does the nightly news. If the role of journalists and the government w…

People can spend their entire lives studying one tiny aspect of our immune system; there are so many interacting, irreducibly complex systems that the average layman can be overwhelmed.

But there are simple things that can be explained visually. See, for instance, this video of Japanese scientists illuminating airborne droplets with green lasers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyZm6dx9Hss

Now, the contention here isn't that there are important concepts that should be explained to layman; the contention here is that there are important concepts that actual scientists need to explain to the decision-makers at the CDC.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#587

Post by anoncake »

DanBC wrote: post #582
anoncake wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're aware that we vaccinate children for a lot of things, right? Yes. So they don't get sick, i.e. it's for their own benefit.

We also vaccinate them so they don't infect people who can't be vaccinated.

If their own health wouldn't justify a vaccination, we should stop that. They can still consent to get vaccinated out of altruism when they're adult.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#588

Post by tinus_hn »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #563
evandijk70 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dutch CDC (RIVM) made the same statements. As a result, people don't really believe in masks here either, but it not a big political issue. I am not sure why the mask became such a symbol for the corona measures in the US, but not here.

Your population no doubt trusts government a lot more. Also republicans here more or less turned trump into a Messianic figure and quit listening to science. It’s getting scary over here to be honest

It’s just that most people don’t really care about wearing a mask in a supermarket and those that do don’t really get bothered with it when they refuse. But it does polarize society between people who love pointing their fingers at others who don’t adhere to their favorite mitigation strategy (‘they’re killing grandma’, ‘If only they had done X’). And of course masks are a pretty visible virtue signal.

People are a lot more critical about the other rules, the curfews, the ban on outdoor dining and bars and the closure of sports facilities. And the ‘you can’t have more than one person over’ rule is generally ignored.

By the way the official Dutch position still is that surface transmission is significant and one of the three ‘main rules’ is to wash your hands a lot.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#589

Post by anoncake »

DanBC wrote: post #583
anoncake wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing children (or anyone really) to undergo a medical procedure for the benefit of other people is evil.

Children grow into adults. We're protecting those future adults.

Against what, a pandemic that's over by then? For more than a year, children's interests have been largely ignored, their well-being and education sacrificed for the sake of scared adults. Now we start vaccinating them, which doesn't actually benefit them but does benefit aforementioned adults, to protect them just in case they catch Covid after the pandemic is over, but not until they're old enough that this is actually a problem? Because they're suddenly that important to us? I don't buy it.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#590

Post by cm2187 »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #220

How cynical is it to question whether or not this was timed at least in part to bolster economic outlook in the face of the market shrinkage this week over inflation fears? (Experts have been asking for more explicit guidance from the CDC for months now.) Edit: for reference, up until this point, the CDC has not even been willing to concede the safety of outdoor activities: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/briefing…

I am as cynical as you but I suspect the tipping point is probably more when even CNN has been calling the CDC’s bullshit on air.
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