Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said • Hacker News Board

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#531

Post by drran » Fri, May 14, 2021, 8:59 AM UTC

carlmr wrote: post #465

em500 wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are suspect cases in Europe already at the beginning of December, of people that had never been in Wuhan. If this is true, then it's not a given that COVID-19 even originated in China.

It's not a given, but it's also not a given that it originated in Europe or anywhere else for that matter. Plane travel makes it possible for a virus to be anywhere in the world on the same day.

Two patients with SARS-CoV-2 in France[0] on November 16, one in China[1] on November 17, and the whole epidemic in Russia[2] on November 19.

This new study of scanners identified two cases of suspected coronavirus, on November 16 and 17

[0]: https://www.francetvinfo.fr/sante/maladie/coronavirus/corona...

China’s first confirmed Covid-19 case traced back to November 17

[1]: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3074991/coro...

The outbreak of pneumonia was recorded in the Orenburg region

(Turn on captions, then select Captions -> Automatic translation -> English)

[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMh11FtfaP0

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#532

Post by avereveard » Fri, May 14, 2021, 8:59 AM UTC

usrusr wrote: post #495

avereveard wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they didn't suspect that an "atypical pneumonia" as it was called since the beginning had an aereosol component a case can be made that they were unfit for their job If mask initial recommendation actually was a white lie a case can be made that they are unfit for communicating their results to the masses as they think their peers to be petulant children unfit for handling truths, and they should be stripped of th…

The “not aerosol“ hypothesis was based on the assumption that the spread rate would have been much higher than observed with an aerosol capable virus. Turns out this one just happened to be quite bad at spreading amongst humans, despite being capable of residing in the air for quite a while. It's rather unsurprising then that we now see many mutations that fix some low hanging fruit "bugs", bringing the spread closer…

pneumonia and influenza whose main transmission vector is contact:

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#533

Post by hhh » Fri, May 14, 2021, 8:59 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #496

hhh wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would prefer to wear a mask at the grocery store, but not at work when physically on-site. I'm low risk, and don't really have any desire to go out and get vaccinated mostly because I'm lazy, don't like needles, antisocial, and generally anxious in public. I don't really ever go out willingly, so I didn't really have an incentive to get vaccinated. Now I can get vaccinated and not wear a mask at work when it's 100+…

I'm really glad that you're going to get vaccinated! But the thing that really bothers me about your previous rationale is that it doesn't take anyone else into account. What about people who would like to get vaccinated, but can't because they're deathly allergic to components of the vaccine (or some other medical reason)? What about people who would like to get vaccinated but can't afford to take time off work for…

Totally, at the store there's definitely other people to take into account as well as at work. I don't think about other people much in my daily life, so it's easy for me to fall into that (false) mentality of being unlikely to have any meaningful impact by not getting vaccinated.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#534

Post by janto » Fri, May 14, 2021, 9:03 AM UTC

shlant wrote: post #447

andreilys wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CDC/surgeon general recommended not wearing masks at the beginning of the pandemic, while Silicon Valley was way ahead of the curve (meanwhile hit pieces were posted by journalists with an axe to grind saying they we’re overreacting). So yes it has lost its credibility.

> So yes it has lost its credibility. I feel like this black and white, "you get one chance" kind of bridge burning is very unproductive. When you look at these agencies not as omniscient entities but as what they are - a collaborative effort of many individuals - then you allow for the evolution of understanding. People can be wrong, especially in regards to more novel situations, so why should we view our instituti…

Organisations of professions should be held to extremely high standards. They are entrusted with more and in return given more privileges than any simple "collection of people".

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#535

Post by kelnos » Fri, May 14, 2021, 9:04 AM UTC

sacomo wrote: post #5

Vaccines still aren't 100%. This is bad advice from the CDC. It will only lead to anti-masker/vaxxers using this as an excuse for not wearing a mask. Even the fully vaccinated should be wearing a mask around other people. 94%/97% is not 100%. edit: Japan is a good example for how masks have drastically reduced the number of infected due to mask culture. Japan has half the US population and still isn't vaccinating the…

Vouched for your (dead) comment because I think it has value in the discussion, even though I think you're missing the whole picture.

Unfortunately the US political and social climate means this CDC advice has to come now, not later, when it'll probably be more scientifically appropriate. Demand for vaccines has been dropping for weeks, and vaccine-hesitant people need to see that there are clear benefits to their day-to-day lives if they get vaccinated.

Vaccines are definitely not 100%, but I think the hope is that relaxing restrictions for vaccinated people will increase demand for the vaccine enough to be worth the risk. While this recommendation may not be good science, I suspect it's good public policy, given that we are all a bunch of emotional humans who don't always do what's best for ourselves when presented only with logic.

There are commenters in other subthreads here who have said that this news made them go and sign up for a vaccine appointment. So it is having the desired effect. We'll see if it has enough of the desired effect.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#536

Post by sokoloff » Fri, May 14, 2021, 9:09 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #522

vmception wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagreed politically? I’m talking about major markets like California opening up, not whatever happens already in Georgia or Florida. So I think these more risk averse jurisdictions will also have a few businesses that try to maintain independent restrictions without support from the state, and I think they will have lost tolerance from their entire population or market base by then (a few weeks from now). This is n…

I think the parent's main objection is that you seem to be showing glee at the prospect of a business failing because it shows an overabundance of caution even after the state no longer requires it. That's... kinda petty, no? Especially when wearing a mask inside a store or whatever isn't a particularly difficult thing to do.

I’m fine with a business underperforming when it’s due to an over-abundance of any type of decision making. Too large salaries, expand too quickly, charge too much, charge too little, ask too much of customers, whatever it is, I hope businesses which make better decisions do better.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#537

Post by ptaipale » Fri, May 14, 2021, 9:10 AM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #512

dguaraglia wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't flatten the curve and then immediately throw away all caution and go back to the behavior that made the curve a geometric progression.

Fortunately, we’re not. In between, there was a vaccine developed and deployed and the science strongly (overwhelmingly is probably more precise) suggests that fully vaccinated people are at minimal risk to themselves and minimal risk to spread, which is of course the entire point of vaccines and entirely unsurprising given our understanding and long experience with other vaccines, which almost all exhibited the same…

I quite agree, but I think the message from health authorities has also been problematic here: they repeated that "vaccinated individuals will still spread the infection".

That is true of course: some vaccinated individuals will still spread the infection because efficacy is not 100 %. But the public has, predictably, got this message wrong: I keep getting told that "vaccinated people will get the infection and spread it just the same".

No, not just the same. Vaccinated people are radically less likely to infect others. I do understand that the officials wanted to be careful and not encourage people to move around after being vaccinated, but perhaps they could have again worded their message differently, to be more honest and direct.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#538

Post by me_me_me » Fri, May 14, 2021, 9:11 AM UTC

livinginfear wrote: post #221

I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID. There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front…

> I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and scepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement.

Snowden's leak was barely a blip on the radar. And it was a proof of how deep the surveillance went. Nobody cared. Patriot act - nobody cared.

People are addicted to outrage and conspiracies not actual reality.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#539

Post by kelnos » Fri, May 14, 2021, 9:13 AM UTC

sacomo wrote: post #19

infamouscow wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought was actually mattered was hospitalizations and deaths. Why is measuring infections relevant?

The primary goal is to not contract covid-19.

That may be your goal, but that is not the goal of public health policy. If complete eradication was the goal, we would be wearing masks, social distancing, and requiring businesses to operate at lower capacity for many, many years to come. That is just not an acceptable state of life for the vast majority of people in the US. You may not agree with that, but that's just how things are.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#540

Post by didibus » Fri, May 14, 2021, 9:14 AM UTC

It does feel a little soon, since there are still big unknown in terms of variants and how effective it is for people with weakened immune systems, and how long the effective protection lasts.

That said, I think what people miss is that CDC is not making recommendations for you not to catch Covid, it's making recommendations in the aggregate of what seems like acceptable risk for the pandemic. So that means some vaccinated might still get Covid, but most won't or will with minor symptoms that is not life threatening. In that regard they probably want to encourage people to go back and stimulate the economy.