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Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

nytimes.com

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Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#511

Post by PostThisTooFast »

evandijk70 wrote: post #401
Rebelgecko wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the CDC's original statements on masks (they aren't necessary, they're only effective at preventing the spread of COVID if the wearer has a medical degree, don't wear masks on planes, etc) contributed a lot to the distrust and politicization of mask wearing. When you expect an institution to always be impartial and tell the truth, those sorts of white lies can quickly erode trust.

The Dutch CDC (RIVM) made the same statements. As a result, people don't really believe in masks here either, but it not a big political issue. I am not sure why the mask became such a symbol for the corona measures in the US, but not here.

It's pretty simple: A lot of Americans are dogshit-stupid. They voted for Trump. They're deliberately and belligerently ignorant children, just like the former (and disgraced) "president."

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#512

Post by sokoloff »

dguaraglia wrote: post #406
thrwhizzle wrote: post #240

For some people the goalposts are moving faster than the speed of light. The goal was to flatten the curve. Remember that? Flatten. The. Curve. Is the curve not flat? How much flatter do you want it to be before returning to normal life? Do you want literally 0.000% risk?

You can't flatten the curve and then immediately throw away all caution and go back to the behavior that made the curve a geometric progression.

Fortunately, we’re not. In between, there was a vaccine developed and deployed and the science strongly (overwhelmingly is probably more precise) suggests that fully vaccinated people are at minimal risk to themselves and minimal risk to spread, which is of course the entire point of vaccines and entirely unsurprising given our understanding and long experience with other vaccines, which almost all exhibited the same disease control properties.

Getting vaccinated seems to me to be the exact opposite of throwing away all caution.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#513

Post by kelnos »

dehrmann wrote: post #261
generj wrote: post #3

It’s good to give better incentives for people to be vaccinated, as many have urged for some time. I worry this carrot isn’t tied to an adequate stick - the unvaccinated can simply go without a mask regardless of their status. Will this move actually counter our slowing vaccination rates?

> I worry this carrot isn’t tied to an adequate stick If most of the new cases start to be among the unvaccinated, that could make for a stick.

I just watched the most recent Last Week Tonight, and there was a clip of a man whose mother refused the vaccine, caught COVID, and is now in the ICU on a ventilator. He was asked if he was going to get vaccinated, and he said he still wasn't sure.

I really wish that stick worked, but it seems like it won't, at least not universally. But presumably there are some people for whom it will work, if one of their loved ones gets infected and ends up in a bad way.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#514

Post by a9h74j »

benjaminwootton wrote: post #475
andreilys wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CDC/surgeon general recommended not wearing masks at the beginning of the pandemic, while Silicon Valley was way ahead of the curve (meanwhile hit pieces were posted by journalists with an axe to grind saying they we’re overreacting). So yes it has lost its credibility.

Genuine question, why did they not lose credibility when they started recommending them due to political pressure rather than “the science”? As I understand it, there is still very flimsy scientific backing for the effectiveness of masks.

AFAIK at best it depends upon number of layers, what kind of layers, fit, droplets (and size) vs. aerosols, humidity, interpersonal distance and dwelling time, and of course ventilation. Given the framing of the "mask debate" in the US with essentially no frequent or defining mention of face covering quality/qualities, essentially it seems like Cargo-cult science at the restrictions/policy level. There are people who meet the requirements essentially breathing through stretched or O(500um) single-layer mesh.

I have not looked closely enough at electret properties to know if meshes with larger pore sizes can really stop 0.06um virus particles. (Or 10nm according to this https://www.news-medical.net/health/The-Size-of-SARS-CoV-2-C... )

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#515

Post by kelnos »

Markoff wrote: post #445
generj wrote: post #3

It’s good to give better incentives for people to be vaccinated, as many have urged for some time. I worry this carrot isn’t tied to an adequate stick - the unvaccinated can simply go without a mask regardless of their status. Will this move actually counter our slowing vaccination rates?

where exactly incentives end and discrimination starts? it's very narrow line I think people should take care about their own health, if you are in risk group get vaccinated, if you are not in risk group what's the point urging someone to get vaccinated if risk groups are vaccinated or are ready to bear risks?

Some people in high-risk groups are not vaccinated, mostly due to allergies or other medical conditions.

Low-risk people can still become infected, never show symptoms, and pass the virus to someone else without realizing it. Risking that happening while a vaccine is available is just irresponsible and selfish.

Throughout this pandemic, my biggest fear was not getting COVID myself, but unwittingly giving it to someone vulnerable who then died.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#516

Post by hellbannedguy »

cout wrote: post #494
ddxxdd wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 weeks of asymptomatic spread has been known about since late January (edit: in 2020). [0] And Fauci said at one point (2/14/2020): “There is no reason for anyone right now in the United States, with regard to coronavirus, to wear a mask” [1] And at another point (6/15/2020): "[...] we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal pro…

The director of the CDC during most of the pandemic was Robert Redfield. Dr. Fauci is director of the NIH, so his statements are not relevant to the credibility of the CDC. In defense of Dr. Fauci's statement, saying "there is no reason right now to wear a mask" is quite different from "masks are ineffective", as it keeps getting paraphrased. The latter is obviously absurd, as there were numerous studies on the effec…

Fauci, and way too many Medical Doctors, seemed guenuinly confused over the efficacy of wearing a mask to prevent the spread of he Covid virus.

A lot medical professionals were claiming the average person wearing a mask will make things worse by putting it on ineffectively.

I heard one doctor say, "All it takes is one virus particle to become infected. I haven't heard any doctor talk about Viral Loads, even now.

My point is our medical professionals seemed as much in the "I just don't know?" catagory as the rest of us with this virus.

I'm still shocked researchers found a vaccine.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#517

Post by makomk »

kelnos wrote: post #458
Simulacra wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the Atlantic noted recently [0] there are many who see masks and safety measures due to COVID as part of their political identity. Likes guns to some, the masks, more critically the forcing of others to wear masks and abide by certain precautions, has become a weapon in politics. My distrust of the masks, and friction at being forced to wear one, really comes from that distrust of those who are forcing me; they ar…

First off, you didn't link this supposed article that claims what you're arguing. But I just don't believe it. If the Atlantic published that, they sought out the small minority of people who believe that in order to make waves. Wearing a mask is not a political statement. It is just a prudent measure you can take to help protect yourself and -- often more importantly -- others. It isn't a guarantee that you won't ge…

Probably this article: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/05/liberal...

It's not just the mask wearing either. It's things with much more substantial actual harm, like keeping schools closed well past the point it was unjustified, along with the belief that anyone who won't deny kids education is evil and a completely inaccurate understanding of the level of risk to them.

Also, you're politicizing mask wearing right here in your comment: "It's funny, because my perception is the opposite of yours: that people who refuse to wear masks have turned that into a political identity. That somehow refusing to wear a mask is the patriotic, freedom-loving thing to do. When the fact is that they're just selfish, and view that refusal as marking themselves as part of a tribe." That you think of anyone who doesn't wear a mask as an evil, selfish right-winger is 100% politicisation.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#518

Post by ngc248 »

Most of the problems happened coz governments world over believed the WHO who in turn were compromised by the CCP. Don't governments/people believe in "Trust but verify" anymore. Everyone parroted the same grey truths which CCP was feeding the world.

Also the election year was another factor in politicizing each and everything.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#519

Post by ptaipale »

tshaddox wrote: post #498
ddxxdd wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 weeks of asymptomatic spread has been known about since late January (edit: in 2020). [0] And Fauci said at one point (2/14/2020): “There is no reason for anyone right now in the United States, with regard to coronavirus, to wear a mask” [1] And at another point (6/15/2020): "[...] we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal pro…

> “There is no reason for anyone right now in the United States, with regard to coronavirus, to wear a mask” Isn’t this defensible if it was indeed true that there was a temporary shortage of masks for health care workers?

I think no. It erodes trust in medical institutions, and now we reap what was sown.

The same thing was done in other countries, including mine (Finland). Result: covid deniers are still using the year-old statements from national health agency to downplay the significance of masks.

"Masks are useless; the officials themselves say so", they quote.

Big mistake not to be honest, even if it leads to criticism against the government for inadequate preparation.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#520

Post by imtringued »

garmaine wrote: post #309
estaseuropano wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European I'm quite surprised how deep the conspiracy theories and suspicions against the state go in the US. You don't need tp take everything at face value, but to be so suspicious of essential institutions like the CDC seems crazy to me. Except for a vocal but tiny minority there's a lot of trust in the institutions of the EU and (Western) Europe, where citizrns at most worry about incompetence, not malicious…

One need only go back about 80 years to find horrific abuses by public health officials in both Europe and America (e.g. involuntary sterilization, to say nothing of Nazi experimentation). What I find strange is that Europeans have such a short memory regarding these things…

>What I find strange is that Europeans have such a short memory regarding these things…

Everyone knows about these things. By everyone I mean everyone who went to the same schools as me.

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