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Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

nytimes.com

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Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#501

Post by admissionsguy »

infoseek12 wrote: post #270

I hope my thinking on this is overly pessimistic but I think wearing masks is going to be perhaps the biggest lightning rod in America for a while. It’s going to act as a proxy issue for many other sociopolitical and psychological issues that will be channeled into this conflict. I think the perhaps the best advice is entirely cliche. We are going to need to respect other people’s choices and try to be as patient and…

> It’s going to act as a proxy issue for many other sociopolitical and psychological issues that will be channeled into this conflict.

That's the key observation, I think. It's not about the mask, it's about something else entirely, and I don't know what that is. Where I live (Sweden), there is little of that tension, and so masks weren't needed.

> We are going to need to respect other people’s choices and try to be as patient and kind as we can.

You cannot just stand by what amounts to religious zeal. It will affect you one way or another.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#502

Post by tshaddox »

dalyons wrote: post #435
google234123 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lock downs also cause huge misery. Recessions are not victimless.

You would choose what is happening now in India instead?

Pretty sure if you’d allowed or even encouraged unmitigated spread of the virus, you’d also get the same or similar recession, though perhaps slightly later.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#503

Post by kelnos »

stopping wrote: post #262
lamontcg wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risk and severity of bad effects from COVID exceed the risks and severity of the bad effects from the vaccine across all age categories. It is a low-risk, higher-reward proposition for everyone. And even if all the virus does is fry your sense of smell you're better off with a few days of influenza-like symptoms from the vaccines.

Anecdotally, dozens of people in my social circle (aged 30-50) reported that the worst vaccine side effects were (1) a sore arm and (2) 24-48 hours of sleepy brain fog (even after the second dose). Among first and second degree connections on Facebook, I know of exactly two people who experienced the full gamut of flu-like symptoms, such as fever, chills, and whole-body aches for a day or two. Take this with a grain…

Anecdotally, dozens of people in my social circle (aged 25-45 or so reported severe side effects, including at least three or four of sore arm, fever, chills, headaches, exhaustion, body aches, nausea, and brain fog. My girlfriend and I had five of them, for an entire day.

I'm not sure if your group's experience or mine is more typical. That's why comprehensive data is required to sort things out, and limited-number anecdotes are useless.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#504

Post by PostThisTooFast »

livinginfear wrote: post #221

I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID. There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front…

Where do you get that idea? The CDC is catering to several interests, whereas readers of this site are free to research the facts and bring critical thinking and perhaps professional experience to bear on the issue.

The CDC just now declared that the primary mode of COVID transmission was through the air. I expect that most readers of this site reacted to that declaration with "No shit." The fervent wiping of surfaces always struck me as futile, when we've known for a long time that this thing was airborne.

What this sad chapter of our history has made clear is that the CDC is somewhat a political tool instead of a source for the latest findings.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#505

Post by sokoloff »

kelnos wrote: post #458
Simulacra wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the Atlantic noted recently [0] there are many who see masks and safety measures due to COVID as part of their political identity. Likes guns to some, the masks, more critically the forcing of others to wear masks and abide by certain precautions, has become a weapon in politics. My distrust of the masks, and friction at being forced to wear one, really comes from that distrust of those who are forcing me; they ar…

First off, you didn't link this supposed article that claims what you're arguing. But I just don't believe it. If the Atlantic published that, they sought out the small minority of people who believe that in order to make waves. Wearing a mask is not a political statement. It is just a prudent measure you can take to help protect yourself and -- often more importantly -- others. It isn't a guarantee that you won't ge…

I see friends of mine who, having celebrated the science behind the CDC pro-mask recommendations for the last 12 months, be suddenly appalled at the change in recommendations and seeming to want to cling the disrupted life a little longer for reasons known mostly to them.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#506

Post by kelnos »

lamontcg wrote: post #409
tryonenow wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do you measure the mid to long term risk of a novel mRNA technology which is effectively in trial now, under emergency approval, when vaccines typically take years of safety evaluations? Particularly considering that there are preprints out with a mechanism identified for reverse transcription of the spike producing mRNA, which could result in chronic inflammatory disease in some proportion of recipients, giv…

Vaccines either cause side effects in ~3 months or they don't. They could conceivably trigger long-term autoimmune conditions but they don't hide for years. And we have a long track record of understanding this because viruses and vaccine cause the same kinds of autoimmune conditions. I had viral pericarditis once from a common cold that struck a month or two after I got over it. We've got hundreds of years of experi…

> The issue with vaccines taking a long time to get approval is development time and efficacy data. Both of those were able to be done quickly due to the massive pandemic and due to the 10 years of preparatory work done on SARS-CoV-1 and mRNA vaccines.

Not only that, but Operation Warp Speed (hate the name, but have to give it some credit) removed bureaucratic hurdles that allowed many of the normal steps to be done in parallel rather than serially. That doesn't mean that those steps were rushed or done in an unsafe manner.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#507

Post by makomk »

mlyle wrote: post #393
x3iv130f wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't blame the professionals for getting things wrong on this. My personal feeling is that it was hard to know if masks worked for the general populace before Covid-19. There are so many confounding variables that it very difficult to study masks from a public health side. The best approximation was studies of health professionals in hospitals or clinics which doesn't exactly translate for a multitude of reasons.

To be honest, we still don't really know if masks work. They look like they probably do something, but the evidence is weak and the effect size small. It's totally worth it to bend an exponential function. But the individual benefit from mask wearing in any given interaction is negligible.

Part of the problem is that the American media spread misinformation about the effectiveness of masks for political gain. For example, I remember the New York Times pushing the idea that vaccines would be less effective than mask wearing even though all evidence suggested that even a vaccine which met the minimum standards for approval would likely be substantially more effective than mask wearing, seemingly because Trump supported vaccines but not masks.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#508

Post by refurb »

josephcsible wrote: post #254

I find it interesting that the people who screamed "trust/listen to the CDC!" the loudest when the CDC's position was "everyone wear your mask and stay home as much as you can" are now the ones looking hardest for reasons to ignore/downplay/criticize the CDC's guidance.

They are just "following the science" (when it suits them).

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#509

Post by kelnos »

dehrmann wrote: post #441
oasisbob wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that the main reason is a combination of virtue signaling, hygiene theater, and because it makes you feel safer. Or, because you feel it's a conservative decision which is respectful of others. I'm not worried about incidental exposure from passing someone on the sidewalk, but I can only make that decision for myself, so I either mask up or get out of the way. Etiquette is a rational enough reason.

At some point you're going to have to draw the line, though. At what point is it etiquette, and at what point is it indulging paranoia? That line might not be today, but it exists.

Sure, and that's exactly the point: that line is not today.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#510

Post by Dma54rhs »

garmaine wrote: post #352
josephcsible wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely unreasonable. We've never been able to eradicate any disease that affects humans other than smallpox, and not for lack of trying.

This is false. We've eradicated SARS-CoV-1, for example. The last case was in 2004. And New Zealand, Australia, and Taiwan outright eliminated COVID community spread domestically (Australia did it twice!), proving it is possible.

Well no thank you, I'm not an Australian or American but I want my citizens to be allowed to turn home. Saving your population from each covid death is perfect excuse for fascism, Trump should have been used it to build 3 walls by the look of how people are willing to accept this position.
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