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Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

nytimes.com

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Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#341

Post by throwaway_4253 »

anonymouse008 wrote: post #312

Can anyone offer guidance to one who has recovered from the actual Covid infection why they would receive the vaccine? Edit: This recent caveat included Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27125728

There are conflicting stories, but I've heard a few different arguments (I'm not sure how accurate any of them are, though):

  * The vaccine is stronger than a low-viral-dose infection; you wind up with more antibodies and more T/B cell engagement, so theoretically more robust immunity
  * The vaccines might be better or worse than natural infection against the variants; on the one hand your body fought a whole wild virus and so the antibodies aren't restricted to the spike protein, like in the mRNA case, so your body might be less overfit. On the other hand, the vaccines seems to producer a stronger immune response, as stated above, so that might be better if the antibodies still mostly line up?
Honestly, even if I had Covid before, it seems to make sense to get vaccinated anyhow. It's free (man, why aren't all vaccines free?), Your employer is very unlikely to give you a hard time for getting it, or taking some time off for recovering from the common side effects of the second dose - it feels like the potential benefits (stronger immunity) outweigh the very limited risks (basically limited flu symptoms and a possible bruise at the injection site).

As a weird side note, at least among my cohort, the side effects seem to be a really clear marker of who's immune system recognizes the disease. My friends who didn't catch it all reported no problems the first time and symptoms on the second shot. My friends who tested positive reported symptoms from the first shot. I had to start immunosuppression after the first shot, but before the second (TNF Alpha Inhibitor), and the symptoms at the second shot were actually a relief that my immune system hadn't been tamped down too hard...

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#342

Post by stopping »

covidthrow wrote: post #292
jjnoakes wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who gets hurt if I wear a mask?

Nobody, directly. Who gets hurt if social structure is affected by the apparent identity of masking? There are plenty of instances of catastrophic social division due to physical differences. I think your choice should be your own, and based on health and other reasons. But it's pretty myopic to ignore the history of superficial social striations.

> But it's pretty myopic to ignore the history of superficial social striations.

I'm having difficulty understanding what this comment is implying. Should other peoples' opinions and reactions to wearing a mask (or not wearing a mask) be a factor in one's own individual decision making?

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#343

Post by anonymouse008 »

throwaway_4253 wrote: post #341
anonymouse008 wrote: post #312

Can anyone offer guidance to one who has recovered from the actual Covid infection why they would receive the vaccine? Edit: This recent caveat included Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27125728

There are conflicting stories, but I've heard a few different arguments (I'm not sure how accurate any of them are, though): * The vaccine is stronger than a low-viral-dose infection; you wind up with more antibodies and more T/B cell engagement, so theoretically more robust immunity * The vaccines might be better or worse than natural infection against the variants; on the one hand your body fought a whole wild viru…

> I had to start immunosuppression after the first shot, but before the second (TNF Alpha Inhibitor), and the symptoms at the second shot were actually a relief that my immune system hadn't been tamped down too hard...

That gives me great pause. My personal preference is to avoid such experiences.

And same goes for my friends, first shot knocks out the positive cases.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#344

Post by spiznnx »

cgriswald wrote: post #210
stjohnswarts wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of curious why you waited so long? Most people I know who are refusing are Trump followers and simply believe it's all a hoax. Literally all of it.

I waited a couple weeks after it was open to everyone here. I waited because the only available vaccines were multiple hours away. I wasn’t going to make that trip twice (and potentially find out they screwed up their count or ruined doses or something) when I could wait a couple weeks and get one in my own town. Doubly so since I have less contact with strangers than most.

That makes sense. I too waited some extra time for supply to be available in my own area, rather than traveling and taking from others' allocations.

But I'm surprised that the "you can go maskless if you get the vaccine" is a deciding factor for anyone. Wearing a dust mask is so trivial compared to all the other changes and efforts I've made this year.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#345

Post by nielsbot »

google234123 wrote: post #340
greesil wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal was to minimize casualties and human misery, to prevent what some countries are going through right now. Flatten the curve was a slogan.

Lock downs also cause huge misery. Recessions are not victimless.

lesser of 2 evils

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#346

Post by jandrewrogers »

ambrose2 wrote: post #330
anonymouse008 wrote: post #312

Can anyone offer guidance to one who has recovered from the actual Covid infection why they would receive the vaccine? Edit: This recent caveat included Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27125728

Some studies have shown immunity from infection may only last several weeks in some individuals, whereas vaccination has been shown to last much longer and more reliably.

This is misleading, it conflates the presence of antibodies with immunity. There is no reason to believe immunity is not durable; a strong immune response to related coronaviruses (e.g. SARS-CoV-1) lasts decades. Antibodies are only generated in response to infections, and disappear after the infection has passed at varying rates based on a number of factors.

People have no antibodies circulating for most things they are immune to. It is expensive to produce antibodies unnecessarily.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#347

Post by covidthrow »

stopping wrote: post #342
covidthrow wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody, directly. Who gets hurt if social structure is affected by the apparent identity of masking? There are plenty of instances of catastrophic social division due to physical differences. I think your choice should be your own, and based on health and other reasons. But it's pretty myopic to ignore the history of superficial social striations.

> But it's pretty myopic to ignore the history of superficial social striations. I'm having difficulty understanding what this comment is implying. Should other peoples' opinions and reactions to wearing a mask (or not wearing a mask) be a factor in one's own individual decision making?

I can't reasonably assert that one should or shouldn't.

I just answered parent's apparently rhetorical question, "Who gets hurt if I wear a mask?" Their assumption is, "Nobody," but the truth aligns more closely to, "Maybe somebody."

This isn't a calculus I've thought through in depth, but the answer is almost certainly not "nobody."

Edit: Please keep in mind this comment is made during a particularly divisive time in world history, so my answer reflects that context. I'm not being so pedantic as to suggest, "well every action may hurt somebody." Rather, the effects of the choice is uniquely amplified due to our current social strife.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#348

Post by cfeduke »

kiawe_fire wrote: post #283
2trill2spill wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, as someone who got vaccinated the first day it was available to all adults in Utah(3/24), I'm surprised that this news changed any ones mind. But either way I'm glad it did!.

It seems pretty logical to me. Every decision is a risk/reward calculation. The vaccine does carry the risk of side effects and adverse reactions. That risk, for most, is VERY small. But if the person in question also has very low risk of contracting or spreading Covid (works from home, rarely goes out, young, healthy) and if being vaccinated doesn’t actually enable you to live any differently than you already are, t…

The logical decision here involves civic duty. I certainly fit into the low risk category, etc., but I also exist in society and am a willing participant, and as such have certain responsibilities to other people in my community.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#349

Post by bostonsre »

grogenaut wrote: post #149
bostonsre wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really hoping that the majority of those that haven't been vaccinated are just lazy and not scared of the vaccine. Hopefully this is enough of a carrot, but also hope this doesn't embolden those that haven't been vaccinated and don't plan on it from going mask-less in public when they previously were wearing masks.

In WA it only recently opened up to all, and even those with early access may still be working on a full course. I just finished my full course because I had early access due to volunteer work. So we're not quite through those who are choosing not to take it here. Soon tho it will be all down to choice here.

Oh, good to know.. guess I assumed that because I've heard there's more vaccines than people that want to take them in the valley that it'd be like that in most other places.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#350

Post by sitkack »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #294
estaseuropano wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European I'm quite surprised how deep the conspiracy theories and suspicions against the state go in the US. You don't need tp take everything at face value, but to be so suspicious of essential institutions like the CDC seems crazy to me. Except for a vocal but tiny minority there's a lot of trust in the institutions of the EU and (Western) Europe, where citizrns at most worry about incompetence, not malicious…

I think the CDC's original statements on masks (they aren't necessary, they're only effective at preventing the spread of COVID if the wearer has a medical degree, don't wear masks on planes, etc) contributed a lot to the distrust and politicization of mask wearing. When you expect an institution to always be impartial and tell the truth, those sorts of white lies can quickly erode trust.

I had COVID in NYC in Feb, the only way to get a test was to claim you just flew from Wuhan. Which even if you did, I have no idea how they were setup to respond.

Everyone else in the hotel was sick, there was a tensor of coughing, all I could do was sit in my hotel room and watch politicians go back and forth about how we should all patronize stores in Chinatown and not be horrible racists.

All I can say is the is that the CDC performed extremely poorly in their response to this, over and over again. Mishandling tests, allowing the FDA to actively block testing. Even the pausing of the J&J vaccine was an extreme CYA blunder.

NASA had Challenger, NIST had Dual_EC_DRBG and the CDC had COVID. Not the same in scope, but the systemic dysfunction was similar in its structure.

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