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Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

nytimes.com

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Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#321

Post by covidthrow »

unethical_ban wrote: post #258
covidthrow wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't judge your cynicism, but I can say it's quite suspect that media outlets—apparently—behaved as the mouthpiece of the state: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27145446

Why is it suspect? It's huge news, and will affect businesses, events, weddings, vacation, personal life for the millions of people who have still been taking public health and the CDC seriously. It's news. And I don't think it's surprising that they would have the scoop around the same time.

The CDC has no authority regarding the masking of either vaccinated or unvaccinated people. Its guidelines may influence state response, but they do not supercede or even augment them. Yet they have been treated as supreme authority by many, as you well point out.

I understand the importance of unified messaging, please don't get me wrong. But the media has acted as the mouthpiece of the state for years, and this is yet another example of that.

Why might this be harmful? Can you conceive of why such marriage between the state and the press may not be in the best interest of the people?

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#322

Post by tidydata »

estaseuropano wrote: post #253
covidthrow wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for noticing this. This is a media blitz, and one may wonder why there are prepared, published stories about CDC guidance that hadn't yet even been published. I'm sure there are many rational reasons for this. One, indeed, is particularly salient.

This is 100% normal. Press is informed under embargo to assure information goes out quickly and widely once the information is ready/ public. Nothing nefarious about it.

Why wouldn’t the CDC publish guidance once it is ready, which the media can than report on? The mere coordination (and normalcy thereof) is exactly why people view these policies (gatekeeping) as nefarious.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#323

Post by gsich »

infamouscow wrote: post #12
sacomo wrote: post #5

Vaccines still aren't 100%. This is bad advice from the CDC. It will only lead to anti-masker/vaxxers using this as an excuse for not wearing a mask. Even the fully vaccinated should be wearing a mask around other people. 94%/97% is not 100%. edit: Japan is a good example for how masks have drastically reduced the number of infected due to mask culture. Japan has half the US population and still isn't vaccinating the…

Nothing is 100% certain. If you don't want to risk it then stay at home.

Death is.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#324

Post by foerbert »

Nbox9 wrote: post #242
cozzyd wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA and CDC are fundamentally different institutions. It does not make sense to treat them the same any more than it makes sense to treat NASA and the IRS the same...

They are not the same, but they are institutions with a lot of similarities (NSA, CDC, NASA, IRS). They largely receive funding the same way, and are answerable to the same people (congress, White House). There is some similarities to how the heads of these organizations are determined and how the heads of these organizations are fired. In startup speak the organizations have the same VC and share many board members.

This broadly oversells their similarities.

Not only is the analogy questionable with board members, but it also carries the implication that they are essentially the same sorts of organizations. They are not.

If you really want to carry this analogy out further, you probably need to expand it so one is a traditional startup and the other a charitable non-profit, or something of the sort. Even if you did have the same people in charge (which again, questionably applicable here), the goals, transparency, and measures of success vary so wildly that I'm not sure it means that much.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#325

Post by guynamedloren »

kiawe_fire wrote: post #283
2trill2spill wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, as someone who got vaccinated the first day it was available to all adults in Utah(3/24), I'm surprised that this news changed any ones mind. But either way I'm glad it did!.

It seems pretty logical to me. Every decision is a risk/reward calculation. The vaccine does carry the risk of side effects and adverse reactions. That risk, for most, is VERY small. But if the person in question also has very low risk of contracting or spreading Covid (works from home, rarely goes out, young, healthy) and if being vaccinated doesn’t actually enable you to live any differently than you already are, t…

I don’t understand this. Does the hypothetical low risk person hypothetically work from home and rarely go out.. forever? If no, when/what is the trigger that changes this behavior?

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#326

Post by [deleted] »

garmaine wrote: post #309
estaseuropano wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European I'm quite surprised how deep the conspiracy theories and suspicions against the state go in the US. You don't need tp take everything at face value, but to be so suspicious of essential institutions like the CDC seems crazy to me. Except for a vocal but tiny minority there's a lot of trust in the institutions of the EU and (Western) Europe, where citizrns at most worry about incompetence, not malicious…

One need only go back about 80 years to find horrific abuses by public health officials in both Europe and America (e.g. involuntary sterilization, to say nothing of Nazi experimentation). What I find strange is that Europeans have such a short memory regarding these things…

[deleted]

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#327

Post by harry8 »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #294
estaseuropano wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European I'm quite surprised how deep the conspiracy theories and suspicions against the state go in the US. You don't need tp take everything at face value, but to be so suspicious of essential institutions like the CDC seems crazy to me. Except for a vocal but tiny minority there's a lot of trust in the institutions of the EU and (Western) Europe, where citizrns at most worry about incompetence, not malicious…

I think the CDC's original statements on masks (they aren't necessary, they're only effective at preventing the spread of COVID if the wearer has a medical degree, don't wear masks on planes, etc) contributed a lot to the distrust and politicization of mask wearing. When you expect an institution to always be impartial and tell the truth, those sorts of white lies can quickly erode trust.

Please also note it is unnecessary to do any additional analysis to describe the example cited as a "lie." We know it was a deliberate lie because the then head of the CDC has said so [1] - unless he was lying about claiming he was lying there's not much doubt in that case. The CDC lie when it suits them isn't something that's really debatable.

Does it matter that they lied? This is the proposition that can be debated sensibly and rationally - but will likely be overwhelmed with emotion.

In my own observation there seems to be rather a lot of people who have almost no faith in their fellow humans and believe the only way "people" believe a thing and will act is because they have been told to believe it by someone. Misinformation takes all the blame in this paradigm. The populations is dominated by people who have outsourced their critical thinking.

It may be true, I don't know. But it seems to me to be really quite worrying if a population has to be told lies to get them to do the right thing or lies have to be censored because people will not be able to assess competing evidence and reject bullshit. Does it have to be this way? Was it always? Is it fixable? Is it really a thing at all? I have no answers there.

It's my observation that even in the service of "good", the debt to the truth always comes due and the interest rate is super steep. Many will disagree.

[1] Lack of PPE for medical professionals in the front line of pandemic response is the justification. This may well be a very good justification.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#328

Post by cmckn »

estaseuropano wrote: post #269
livinginfear wrote: post #221

I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID. There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front…

As a European I'm quite surprised how deep the conspiracy theories and suspicions against the state go in the US. You don't need tp take everything at face value, but to be so suspicious of essential institutions like the CDC seems crazy to me. Except for a vocal but tiny minority there's a lot of trust in the institutions of the EU and (Western) Europe, where citizrns at most worry about incompetence, not malicious…

I think this stems from the perception that the US federal government is monolithic, secretive, and imperceptible. The reality is that it's wildly diverse, staffed by "everyday" Americans, takes place almost entirely in the open, and very knowable (even if there is complexity -- just like computers). In the same way that many modern humans have grown distant from "nature," Americans have grown distant from our own government. I knew few Americans who truly believe our government is of the people, by the people, for the people. It's sad. :(

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#329

Post by ddingus »

onionisafruit wrote: post #45
jasonlaramburu wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha fair but they do have masks with a little bit of foam on the nosepiece for this purpose.

I can't believe I got through (hopefully) most of the covid pandemic fogging up my glasses without knowing this simple solution exists.

I used automotive defog on my glasses.

Then someone showed me the foam...

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#330

Post by ambrose2 »

anonymouse008 wrote: post #312

Can anyone offer guidance to one who has recovered from the actual Covid infection why they would receive the vaccine? Edit: This recent caveat included Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27125728

Some studies have shown immunity from infection may only last several weeks in some individuals, whereas vaccination has been shown to last much longer and more reliably.
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