‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#131

Post by drcongo » Thu, May 13, 2021, 10:46 AM UTC

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #111

shostack wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to take your question as genuine based on how you are engaging those who respond. For starters, you're making baseless assumptions about those involved without providing and receipts. For example, how do you know people were looking for things to be offended by vs people simply googling their soon to be boss who found some very concerning things in the process and raise their (quite legitimate) concerns thr…

I have karma to burn and I am annoyed by automatic downvoting and general idiocy I see around me. It is not intellectually lazy to challenge idiocy. In fact, it is necessary. It is intellectually lazy( and if not downright stupid ) to let hysteria and twitter mob dictate hiring practices. It is not trolling. So. Some god damn context since anyone with access to google COULD have pulled it if they were so inclined ( b…

That's considerably more gross than the out of context version. You find human lives being described as "useless baggage" with the same worth as "a box of shotgun shells" inoffensive?

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#132

Post by TheAdamAndChe » Thu, May 13, 2021, 11:06 AM UTC

pr0zac wrote: post #114

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing that should matter is: Can he do the job? Whether he wrote a book people get their panties twisted over does not appear to be a part of that job description. When did this concept become so controversial?

I’m getting the impression you’ve never run a company before since you seem to think you’re making logical arguments so I’ll answer you earnestly regardless of the ad hominem attacks you’re making. That concept became controversial 57 years ago with the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1964 and the controversial nature of it has been strengthened over the decades since through a multitude of hostile workplace laws…

I really hope this comment gets higher on the page, because I think it explains the situation really well.

I was going to make a comment mentioning how the asymmetry in what is allowed in big companies frustrates me greatly. People who express disdain towards the current social structure and disparage groups like white men get hired left and right while people who vocally express support for older social structures get cancelled. Well your comment explains that asymmetry perfectly with something I had never considered: legal risk.

It is apparent to me that many people in the country still align with the old social structures, but they aren't allowed to thrive in modern corporate America. How will this affect society in the long term? What would it take for things to change?

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#133

Post by prepend » Thu, May 13, 2021, 12:06 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #46

gnicholas wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow apparently a NYT bestseller and NPR book of the year.

There were 309 "NPR Best Books of the Year" in 2016. https://apps.npr.org/best-books/#view=covers&year=2016 Here is the NYT review. It's not exactly glowing. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/business/dealbook/review-...

It seems the NYT review has an overall positive sentiment with statements like “irresistible and indispensable 360-degree guide to the new technology establishment.”

It seems like there’s almost 300,000 books published in the US each year [0] so being on NPR’s list is pretty distinguished. So a better way would be to say it’s in the 99.9th percentile.

[0] https://malwarwickonbooks.com/published-every-year/

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#134

Post by ako » Thu, May 13, 2021, 12:29 PM UTC

williamsmj wrote: post #40

ryanwhitney wrote: post #19

Outside of the main quote that keeps showing up, he was also fairly creepy writing about women he worked with . > Unlike most women at Facebook (or in the Bay Area, really) she knew how to dress; forties-style, form-fitting dresses from neck to knee were her mainstay. > There were few women one would call conventionally attractive at Facebook. The few there were rarely if ever dressed for work with their femininity o…

If anyone thinks this is a case of "cancel culture wokerati you can't say anything these days", I can only assume you've never heard of the guy. Read the many, lengthy direct quotes from his writing in https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/12/22432909/apple-petition-h... . This is a guy who has made a writing/speaking career of knowingly saying crassly offensive and, at best, childishly naughty things about entire classes…

According to a review in the New York Times:

"Mr. García is not just a keen observer of corporate and social culture, but a thoughtful business and policy analyst armed with a highly refined detector for pretentious nonsense. "

See: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/business/dealbook/review-...

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#135

Post by ako » Thu, May 13, 2021, 12:33 PM UTC

jsf wrote: post #66

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing that should matter is: Can he do the job? Whether he wrote a book people get their panties twisted over does not appear to be a part of that job description. When did this concept become so controversial?

He literally said "Most women in the Bay Area are ... generally full of shit". How can you work with someone that thinks that, specially if you are a woman, say, in the Bay Area? And how can he do the job if people can't effectively work with him?

According to a review of New York Times: "Mr. García is not just a keen observer of corporate and social culture, but a thoughtful business and policy analyst armed with a highly refined detector for pretentious nonsense." (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/business/dealbook/review-...)

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#136

Post by 0898 » Thu, May 13, 2021, 12:56 PM UTC

williamsmj wrote: post #40

ryanwhitney wrote: post #19

Outside of the main quote that keeps showing up, he was also fairly creepy writing about women he worked with . > Unlike most women at Facebook (or in the Bay Area, really) she knew how to dress; forties-style, form-fitting dresses from neck to knee were her mainstay. > There were few women one would call conventionally attractive at Facebook. The few there were rarely if ever dressed for work with their femininity o…

If anyone thinks this is a case of "cancel culture wokerati you can't say anything these days", I can only assume you've never heard of the guy. Read the many, lengthy direct quotes from his writing in https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/12/22432909/apple-petition-h... . This is a guy who has made a writing/speaking career of knowingly saying crassly offensive and, at best, childishly naughty things about entire classes…

"The key to comedy is to put a delicate idea indelicately or an indelicate idea delicately" – Cicero.

Worth bearing in mind Chaos Monkeys came out 8 years ago – an age in cultural years. That same year Warren Buffett was quoted as saying this: “Credit worthiness is like virginity. It can be preserved but not restored very easily so it is crazy to play around with it.”

I'm not sure if he'd would say that now, but I'm not sure this was such uncomfortable syntax in the 2010s.

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#137

Post by elliekelly » Thu, May 13, 2021, 1:09 PM UTC

HKH2 wrote: post #103

motohagiography wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd suggest Popper's Paraphrase needs some deeper thought, as today it has been reduced to people trying to end arguments by yelling "KARL POPPER!" at people who step out of line.

It's a bit late for that now. The next step is deplatforming anyone open about their politics. Maybe that'll be good after all.

The tax rate is politics. Foreign policy is politics. Government spending is politics.

Denigrating women is not politics.

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#138

Post by Volundr » Thu, May 13, 2021, 1:25 PM UTC

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #72

williamsmj wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can he do the job? Well, the job included managing people from groups he has publicly and repeatedly shown contempt for, and a bunch of people he'd be managing said that they wanted him fired. So I suspect the answer is no, if we're boiling this down a purely meritocratic question, he literally cannot do the job.

How so? I had some bad managers before and this guy, who I never listened to before until now ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE0pIKV5Mlc ) sounds ridiculously less bad than some of those managers. Part of it is because, it does not matter that manager thinks you a are worth less than nothing. Not to the real owners anyway. What matters is whether they deliver on what is needed. Everything else is noise.

I've had bad managers to. The fact that bad managers exist is not a reason to shrug your shoulders and just hire shitty managers any more than bad coders existing is a reason to just give up on pupulate a team with them.

As for "Part of it is because, it does not matter that manager thinks you a are worth less than nothing. Not to the real owners anyway. What matters is whether they deliver on what is needed."

That's straight nonsense. A bad manager can often make sure a top performer they don't like never gets the credit they deserve or has any internal opportunities.

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#139

Post by ihsw » Thu, May 13, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

pr0zac wrote: post #96

cudgy wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you then handle a worker that claims white men are inherently racist? Or a worker that posts red-headed men are ugly and stupid? Or a worker that claims almost ex-military people are ignorant and violent? Do all workers who are men and ex-military have the right to demand their removal?

In the same way you handle all people who actively publish hateful comments about protected classes of people, by firing them so they cannot inflict their beliefs on other workers. I feel like you think you’re posting some sort of gotcha. Do you not believe Apple would’ve done the same thing in those cases? Based on what? Do you have a single example of that happening?

You're carefully parsing the words out and qualifying your statement with "protected classes" when clearly the parent commenter was asking about obvious anti-white racism and anti-male sexism. Why?

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#140

Post by notaspecialist » Thu, May 13, 2021, 1:48 PM UTC

I remember reading some of a book about the psychology of pushing people into the far-(right|left) camps. It went something along the lines of "if you reject them, it crystalizes their opinions as being right". It offered advice on how to make them feel heard, and ways to guide them back towards a more mainstream opinion.

I can see why the environment is so polarised.