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Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

businessinsider.com.au

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Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#141

Post by ALittleLight »

varenc wrote: post #104
dheera wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone create a Dutch-shell-companies-as-as-service (DSCaaS), generate and submit all legal documents automatically, and help normal citizens dodge the same amount of taxes?

I suspect there's a large fixed cost to arrange this so it doesn't make sense for most people. Though maybe there's way to make it cheaper! Also with inheritance tax in the US, your estate isn't taxed unless it's worth more than $11.18 million [0]. So doesn't matter for most people. It's estimated only %0.2 of estates pay the tax. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_State...

Could there be one Dutch Shell Company Company and individuals could enter into a contract with it to pass their wealth through to avoid taxes?

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#142

Post by Zenst »

lifeformed wrote: post #115
IdontRememberIt wrote: post #67

If IP and shell companies infuriate you. I invite you to investigate why all billionaires have foundations or its cousin structures and "give" their wealth to it... Clue: tax and inheritance (tax) avoidance. Bill, Buffett, etc. are hypocrites. But it is not new, even in the Bible they spoke about it (Matthew 6:2): "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues…

You could reframe it as: The tax benefits are there to incentivize philanthropic giving. Society benefits from their giving and they receive a tax benefit and PR boost in return. It's not like they're saving more money total by giving it away. And sure, it'd be nice if philanthropists were super humble and anonymous, but the money helps either way, and I don't think those who are helped by the giving care if the give…

In some aspects it is controlling how your TAXES are spent by cutting out the middle man.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#143

Post by Fern_Blossom »

seaourfreed wrote: post #93

Congress is corrupt (via lobbyists). Congress would make this illegal if congress men/women didn't sell out American Citizens. 88% of the cost of the US Fed gov is paid for by taxes by workers (income taxes). Less than 12% comes from all corp/business taxes combined with capital gains (taxing the rich 1%). Business shifting tax burden to workers is a massive scale problem. $3.5 Trillion = US Tax Revenues (2019) and 8…

Hot take: Stop thinking of lobbying as a corporate only tool and understand the system was devised as a way for specialized interested (technocratic) to influence congress in an efficient and informed way. The lobbyist system is open to all by purpose. The real problem: the general public doesn't actually give a shit about wiping its own ass when it comes to dealing with their own government. Whose fault is it when you don't play the game with the rules provided? Stubbing your toe and blaming an -ism doesn't produce results. Many non-corporate, non-corrupt groups in US history used the system to make true good changes.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#144

Post by yojo »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #134
seaourfreed wrote: post #93

Congress is corrupt (via lobbyists). Congress would make this illegal if congress men/women didn't sell out American Citizens. 88% of the cost of the US Fed gov is paid for by taxes by workers (income taxes). Less than 12% comes from all corp/business taxes combined with capital gains (taxing the rich 1%). Business shifting tax burden to workers is a massive scale problem. $3.5 Trillion = US Tax Revenues (2019) and 8…

Is it unusual that 88% of the US federal revenue is from individual income taxes? IIRC US corporate income tax rates are fairly high compared to the rest of the world (although maybe there's more deductions and other shenanigans)

The economist has a nice chart on this. The US has a lower share of taxes paid by corporations relative to other sources than our peers.

https://archive.is/ND3cQ

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#145

Post by bartart »

fnord77 wrote: post #119
seaourfreed wrote: post #93

Congress is corrupt (via lobbyists). Congress would make this illegal if congress men/women didn't sell out American Citizens. 88% of the cost of the US Fed gov is paid for by taxes by workers (income taxes). Less than 12% comes from all corp/business taxes combined with capital gains (taxing the rich 1%). Business shifting tax burden to workers is a massive scale problem. $3.5 Trillion = US Tax Revenues (2019) and 8…

in the 1950s and later, the highest tax bracket was somewhere in the 90%s

Yes, but unfortunately no rich person actually paid those rates: "despite these high marginal rates, the top 1 percent of taxpayers in the 1950s only paid about 42 percent of their income in taxes. As a result, the tax burden on high-income households today is only slightly lower than what these households faced in the 1950s."

https://taxfoundation.org/taxes-on-the-rich-1950s-not-high/

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#146

Post by Rebelgecko »

croes wrote: post #138
Rebelgecko wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it unusual that 88% of the US federal revenue is from individual income taxes? IIRC US corporate income tax rates are fairly high compared to the rest of the world (although maybe there's more deductions and other shenanigans)

Fairly high? I don't think so. Compare the tax rates to european countries.

It looks like most countries in Europe have lower corporate tax rates than the US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_in_Europe)

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#147

Post by 0xy »

seaourfreed wrote: post #93

Congress is corrupt (via lobbyists). Congress would make this illegal if congress men/women didn't sell out American Citizens. 88% of the cost of the US Fed gov is paid for by taxes by workers (income taxes). Less than 12% comes from all corp/business taxes combined with capital gains (taxing the rich 1%). Business shifting tax burden to workers is a massive scale problem. $3.5 Trillion = US Tax Revenues (2019) and 8…

It's really hard to evade personal income tax, so why shouldn't the government just give up and tax corporations at 0%, while having high progressive personal income taxes?

Or, better yet, proper sliding consumption taxes. If you want a yacht or private jet, pay 150% in taxes.

Norway already taxes luxury cars at over 100% of their value.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#148

Post by orhmeh09 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #55
dkarras wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US taxes global individual income... Always wondered why US citizens do not make a bigger deal out of this. If I understand correctly, if you are a US citizen, but live somewhere else in the world, IRS still expects to be paid tax from your individual income in that foreign country (possibly in addition to the tax you pay in your country of residence) right? I assume there are minimum income thresholds but still...…

I guess people think having US citizenship is worth the price of filing extra taxes - otherwise they would renounce the citizenship. It costs money to maintain the meaning of a citizenship. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask people to pay for it.

It’s actually rather difficult and costly to renounce citizenship —- you must pay for that privilege. The passport fee should be more than enough (as it is for literally every other country), especially for a passport that barely cracks the top 20 to top 10 in various indices of passport strength. We are being exploited and there’s really no good reason.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#149

Post by rattray »

happytoexplain wrote: post #64
nceqs3 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be mad at politicians for writing tax codes that work like this rather than companies for taking advantage of them.

Why not both? Dissatisfaction drives change. Yes, companies are expected to take advantage of legal means of increasing value, but there is a spectrum of behavior between "shrewd" and "immoral" that still falls entirely within "legal", and the individual human beings in the affected society reasonably have opinions about where the line is. When the numbers are too disgusting, it's OK for people to express dissatisfac…

> Why not both?

It's hard to be mad at someone once you realize you'd do the same thing if you were in their shoes.

Loopholes like this should be illegal, but their existence ~obligates executives to take advantage of them (fiduciary duty). You'd just be bad at business if you didn't.

As someone who wants to be good at business, I can't get mad at the players here – just the game.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#150

Post by jimbob45 »

seaourfreed wrote: post #93

Congress is corrupt (via lobbyists). Congress would make this illegal if congress men/women didn't sell out American Citizens. 88% of the cost of the US Fed gov is paid for by taxes by workers (income taxes). Less than 12% comes from all corp/business taxes combined with capital gains (taxing the rich 1%). Business shifting tax burden to workers is a massive scale problem. $3.5 Trillion = US Tax Revenues (2019) and 8…

Do you have sources for those incredibly attractive statistics?
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