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Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

businessinsider.com.au

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Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#131

Post by [deleted] »

mdorazio wrote: post #88
fighterpilot wrote: post #78

I've heard this suggested before: abolish all corporate tax and increase capital gains tax to equal income tax. This will level the playing field between large and small businesses, since the former has the means to dodge byzantine corporate tax laws. It will also give an incentive for companies to stay onshore. Any downsides?

Yes. > increase capital gains tax to equal income tax Is far easier said than done. For example, would you include the $250K capital gains deduction for selling a home in that? Additionally, you're probably referring to raising long-term capital gains tax, but that has the side effect of disincentivizing long-term investment in favor of more short-term speculation.

[deleted]

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#132

Post by lumost »

lifeformed wrote: post #115
IdontRememberIt wrote: post #67

If IP and shell companies infuriate you. I invite you to investigate why all billionaires have foundations or its cousin structures and "give" their wealth to it... Clue: tax and inheritance (tax) avoidance. Bill, Buffett, etc. are hypocrites. But it is not new, even in the Bible they spoke about it (Matthew 6:2): "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues…

You could reframe it as: The tax benefits are there to incentivize philanthropic giving. Society benefits from their giving and they receive a tax benefit and PR boost in return. It's not like they're saving more money total by giving it away. And sure, it'd be nice if philanthropists were super humble and anonymous, but the money helps either way, and I don't think those who are helped by the giving care if the give…

The core claim above is that ultimately the foundation is a lip service activity to preserve wealth. If a hundred billionaire pays out 1 billion dollars in philanthropy via the foundation, but earns 10 billion tax free then they are doing quite well.

It's a trivial matter to write the terms of the foundation such that yourself/successors can draw permanent income via "board" positions, advisory roles, or other means.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#133

Post by JoshTriplett »

loeg wrote: post #71
JoshTriplett wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Always wondered why US citizens do not make a bigger deal out of this. It affects a relatively small set of people (those with substantial income who live abroad in a lower-tax jurisdiction), and it'd be politically difficult to change. > I assume there are minimum income thresholds but still... None other than the normal thresholds for income taxes. The one ameliorating factor is the foreign tax credit: you get a…

> > I assume there are minimum income thresholds but still... > None other than the normal thresholds for income taxes. That's not right. There is a specific foreign earned income exclusion: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore... It's around $100k (increasing with inflation) for individuals. > However, you may qualify to exclude your foreign earnings from income up to an amount that is adjust…

I stand corrected; thank you for the clarification.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#134

Post by Rebelgecko »

seaourfreed wrote: post #93

Congress is corrupt (via lobbyists). Congress would make this illegal if congress men/women didn't sell out American Citizens. 88% of the cost of the US Fed gov is paid for by taxes by workers (income taxes). Less than 12% comes from all corp/business taxes combined with capital gains (taxing the rich 1%). Business shifting tax burden to workers is a massive scale problem. $3.5 Trillion = US Tax Revenues (2019) and 8…

Is it unusual that 88% of the US federal revenue is from individual income taxes?

IIRC US corporate income tax rates are fairly high compared to the rest of the world (although maybe there's more deductions and other shenanigans)

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#135

Post by IdontRememberIt »

BoysenberryPi wrote: post #122
IdontRememberIt wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buffett always complains that he did not pay enough tax. He could simply wire 50% of his fortune to the IRS. His secretary had no choice. (End of sarcasm) They should donate to a foundation. They should not have link with it (direct or indirect ). Their family (direct or indirect) should not have link with it (direct or indirect ). The problem with these structures is that they allow someone to control and directly b…

Frankly if I was a billionaire and had the means to setup my own charity that I had complete visibility into so I knew exactly where every penny was spent I would do that over giving it to another foundation.

Agree. Unfortunately today a Foundation is mainly a optimisation structure. Most of the countries have usually other structures (in their fiscal code) to encourage people to help.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#136

Post by frutiger »

seaourfreed wrote: post #112
samename wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for these stats?

Yes. They come straight from US Congressional Budget Office. These are government published numbers: US Federal Tax Revenues (2019): $3.5 Trillion SOURCE: https://www.google.com/search?q=us+tax+revenues+2019&oq=us+t... US Capital Gains (2018): $170 Billion (4.8%) SOURCE: https://taxfoundation.org/federal-capital-gains-tax-collecti... US Corporate Taxes: 3.9% of US Tax Revenues https://taxfoundation.org/us-tax-revenue…

> US Federal Tax Revenues (2019)

> US Capital Gains (2018)

Is that a typo or are you comparing revenues from two different years?

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#137

Post by lumost »

rjbwork wrote: post #111
thisCtx wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO most of the “exceptional” people in a country “by of and for the people” are hypocrites for waiting on billionaires to fix things How is political capitulation by the masses exceptional? Covid offered a perfect opportunity for info workers to show solidarity with on-site workers by not opening those laptops at home. But really it’s the leopards fault they keep eating our faces because we refuse to build a cage (h…

>Stop going to the jobs they offer. It’s our agency not theirs. Demand they respect it. A general strike? You're asking for people to cooperate in a mass prisoner dilemma on a societal scale. Never going to happen with the complete lack of labor organization in the US.

General strikes occur are strange occurences. The few examples such as France in 1968, or the Soviet Union in 1991, or the Praque Spring in 1968 occurred for reasons more akin to "mass social unrest/dissatisfaction" than organized labor activity.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#138

Post by croes »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #134
seaourfreed wrote: post #93

Congress is corrupt (via lobbyists). Congress would make this illegal if congress men/women didn't sell out American Citizens. 88% of the cost of the US Fed gov is paid for by taxes by workers (income taxes). Less than 12% comes from all corp/business taxes combined with capital gains (taxing the rich 1%). Business shifting tax burden to workers is a massive scale problem. $3.5 Trillion = US Tax Revenues (2019) and 8…

Is it unusual that 88% of the US federal revenue is from individual income taxes? IIRC US corporate income tax rates are fairly high compared to the rest of the world (although maybe there's more deductions and other shenanigans)

Fairly high? I don't think so. Compare the tax rates to european countries.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#139

Post by ur-whale »

gogopuppygogo wrote: post #89
IdontRememberIt wrote: post #67

If IP and shell companies infuriate you. I invite you to investigate why all billionaires have foundations or its cousin structures and "give" their wealth to it... Clue: tax and inheritance (tax) avoidance. Bill, Buffett, etc. are hypocrites. But it is not new, even in the Bible they spoke about it (Matthew 6:2): "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues…

Anyone with any money should setup a trust. Especially if they want to marry. Done right it’s an amazing way to protect your wealth. Better protection than a prenup can provide.

>Anyone with any money should setup a trust

Anyone in the US with any money should setup a trust

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#140

Post by hnick »

markus_zhang wrote: post #129
seaourfreed wrote: post #93

Congress is corrupt (via lobbyists). Congress would make this illegal if congress men/women didn't sell out American Citizens. 88% of the cost of the US Fed gov is paid for by taxes by workers (income taxes). Less than 12% comes from all corp/business taxes combined with capital gains (taxing the rich 1%). Business shifting tax burden to workers is a massive scale problem. $3.5 Trillion = US Tax Revenues (2019) and 8…

IMO the state should give incentives and ways for billionaires and mega corps to invest into new technologies as well as new programs that will invigorate the economy, technology and other perspectives of the society. Sadly it seems it is doing the opposite.

R&D tax credits exist in some places, but as far as I can tell one company I worked at claimed it just for writing software they used in-house which seems against the spirit of the idea.
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