I manage people and have some advice. Start with, "I'd like to be converted to full remote, what's the process for that?" The answer is probably "I don't know but I don't think it would fly." Insist that your manager ask up the chain for an official answer. If the answer is "nope", next say: "I'm not comfortable returning to the office for health reasons. Will I be fired?" This is two-pronged: a) it introduces privat…
Are you assuming his reasons for not wanting to return are health related? It would be dubious and dishonest to use that as an excuse if not.
I completely disagree with the strategy if you aren’t vulnerable to the virus. Negotiate remote on its merits without throwing something emotive in there for your personal gain.
Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…
You also need to consider what this looks like from the other side - an employee has looked a new role, interviewed for it, and been given an offer. That's a strong signal that they're unhappy and looking for the exit. You may say the fact you're not remote is the reason, but what if it's also about money or the work is boring or there's friction with your manager? The only information the company has is what you're…
Quiet a few highly-motivated tech employees interview even if they aren't looking to move. Many of my friends/colleagues took 1-2 interviews a year just to keep their interviewing skills sharp (interviewing is a skill that benefits from practice, just like anything else), and to keep an eye on how far their comp was above/below market.
You can't necessarily infer "is unhappy here" from "has an offer from another firm".
You also need to consider what this looks like from the other side - an employee has looked a new role, interviewed for it, and been given an offer. That's a strong signal that they're unhappy and looking for the exit. You may say the fact you're not remote is the reason, but what if it's also about money or the work is boring or there's friction with your manager? The only information the company has is what you're…
Quiet a few highly-motivated tech employees interview even if they aren't looking to move. Many of my friends/colleagues took 1-2 interviews a year just to keep their interviewing skills sharp (interviewing is a skill that benefits from practice, just like anything else), and to keep an eye on how far their comp was above/below market. You can't necessarily infer "is unhappy here" from "has an offer from another firm…
Although if you take this strategy, it's also worth talking openly about it on the regular. That way your management wont go into panic mode when they hear you are interviewing, but they'll also be reminded regularly to adjust your comp to market levels ;)
@ineptech knows what he's talking about. Follow this advice. Here are some more ideas to consider. Source: 18+ years of experience as an engineer, manager, and director. The theme is make your manager's life easy and he/she will do whatever they can to help you out. Depending upon the size of your company, your manager may have more or less discretion with WFH. Whatever you do, don't put him/her into a corner with an…
How can you patiently explore your options or loopholes for HR, when there is an urgent deadline to return to the office? Wouldn’t simply not showing up give them a “bureocratic obligation” to fire you for disobedience?
There's no such thing as bureaucratic obligation. A manager will not want to lose a good employee if they can avoid it.
You also need to consider what this looks like from the other side - an employee has looked a new role, interviewed for it, and been given an offer. That's a strong signal that they're unhappy and looking for the exit. You may say the fact you're not remote is the reason, but what if it's also about money or the work is boring or there's friction with your manager? The only information the company has is what you're…
I agree to some extent here. I think it's perhaps better in general that employees raise their specific needs very clearly with their employers and if they feel like they are not being listened to then they should start to look to find another offer. If the very first step an employee takes before negotiating for free tea and coffee in the break room is to slap another job offer on the table then I agree it looks bad…
i can tell you from my own experience and from a experience when leading a team, if they did get thru the whole process and got another solid offer, what you are buying is usually some time.
from my experience when i got another offer, my then current employer matched and then extended the offer. But when the next offer came one year later i was gone.
When leading the team i got a junior that said he got an offer. I got us that we could match, but we where not in the position then to offer more. And sure enough after one year he was gone.
Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…
I won't entertain any offer that comes _after_ a so-called "final offer". That would signify that I regard lying as an acceptable business practice.
> "I'm not comfortable returning to the office for health reasons. Will I be fired?" If you did this to me I would want you gone. Making disingenuous arguments shows a total lack of morality. Why would I want to hire someone who is willing to lie to get what they want?
Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…
Don't negotiate. Dictate. If you're already in place and have proven that you're good at what you do, this is the way to go. "I wanted to let you know that I'll be staying remote from here on out. This last year has been a huge improvement in quality of life for me, and honestly I couldn't imagine working out of an office again. I'd love to stay with you guys (this is a great team), so let me know if that's an option…
> Good developers are hard to find, and the market right now is on fire, so you're a lot more valuable to them then they are to you.
As much as I think this is true, somehow experience tells me the other way around: valuable employees leaving company X doesn't make company X sweat. Company X just hires more... and there is always someone who can be hired. A couple of months later, everything is alright again and once realized that that valuable employee was just another cog in the machine.
I did this some 12 years, clearly this predates covid. I didn't think they'd be that interested in despite my job clearly being doable remotely. I ended up working out how much my commute cost me in £ and then offered that they can reduce my salary by that much AND i'll just work from home.
Then threw in some "I'll always be available over video chat" and if something is VERY important (not just team meetings) then you'll offer to come in.
The odd time i do need to go in, i tend to travel in my lunch break. Takes about 90 minutes, but ...i can make up that 30 minutes.
I've worked from home ever since, rejecting numerous jobs of twice my salary ....as quite simply i don't want 4 extra hours of travel each day.
Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…
How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?
"Sorry, but I'm currently not accepting in-office work. If my employment is contingent on new in-office policies, I'm afraid I'll be tendering my resignation."