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Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

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Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#781

Post by shlant »

igetspam wrote: post #716
arunix wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your example of evil just seems like the animals having a sense of danger to me. Animals usually instinctively will try to avoid danger. This doesn't require them to have a concept of evil.

What's your definition of evil? If an animal finds a specific set of traits to be characteristic of something that's dangerous and/or likely to inflict harm, is that not the definition of evil? https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evil We wrote these things down so that we describe them to each other. The concepts already existed. We didn't invent evil, we defined it but it was already there. We've also used ar…

good and evil is a moral concept. Unless you believe in moral realism (which you would have a hard time proving) then yes, we did invent evil. You could probably snag yourself a Nobel Prize if you could prove morality is objective and that animals have an awareness of it.

> why don't we eat dogs and mutes and the mentally handicapped?

This is exactly the kind of point you would have to bite the bullet on if you were to be logically consistent and made arguments for meat eating being ok because you believe animals are intellectually/morally inferior. If you believe a cow is ok to eat because they are not as smart then you would have to be ok (being logically consistent) with eating anything that is not as smart as you such as the mentally handicapped.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#782

Post by virtue3 »

mumblemumble wrote: post #701
virtue3 wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, the majority of meat we eat today comes from factory farming, and the majority of the feed for those animals comes from... traditional crop farming. This is incorrect. Cattle is fed primarily on grass. They are grain finished to increase weight at the end. A lot of that space is unusable as crop fields. Also a lot of animal feed is based off of plant byproduct, corn husk, wheat "What most livestock in the…

> A lot of that space is unusable as crop fields. It may be unusable as crop fields, but grazing it often prevents it from developing into a richer ecosystem that might be able to support a greater variety of wildlife and sink more carbon dioxide. A rather extreme example of this somewhat famously happens down in Brazil, but there's also a not completely off-the-wall hypothesis that this phenomenon also at least part…

I would argue that you can't point to a single source like that in ecology.

Grasslands are the way they are due to draught as well. They have dry periods, and during these they catch on fire and the whole thing burns down.

> "A grassland can become either a desert or a forest if conditions like temperature, amount of rainfall, how often fires occur and how many herbivores live in these areas change. As more and more trees grow in a grassland, it is sometimes called a savanna."

https://askabiologist.asu.edu/explore/grassland#:~:text=Fore....

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#783

Post by sweetheart »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #778
sweetheart wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are all industry standard practices throughout the world. This is how the majority of meat is produced. If you find it abhorrent, then you find most animal products abhorrent.

That's not even remotely true. Eg. Europe doesn't want any meat imported from the US. Different standards... Perhaps educate yourself before claiming things.

Nope, they follow many or all of the extremely problematic standards that are commonplace in the US and Australia. Don’t worry, the EU has published the guidelines for what is considered humane slaughter, so you can verify it for yourself like I did.

Also, what did you think of the film? Those are _exactly_ the methods that the EU has approved.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#784

Post by [deleted] »

jlnthws wrote: post #476
ipaddr wrote: post #170

I'm generally surprised no one brings up the negative health benefits of processed foods. It is not healthier to get rid of meat only to replace it with high salt chemically processed food that tastes like meat. It seems like we are going backwards. You know what uses less greenhouse emissions, less water and less land? The orginal plant based food that gets processed into a beyond burger. If you really care about th…

Thanks, this is the most underrated answer. Selling processed food as one solution to climate change is genius marketing BS but still just BS. It reminds me of Soylent, Juicero and the like. If you care about the environment, your health and animal well being then just eat less animal product (you need some anyway), buy only local food (local meat) and above all stop wasting so much of it. Just a few decades ago peop…

[deleted]

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#785

Post by gnull »

seanwilson wrote: post #771
gnull wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nobody would like it done to them […] Would you say the same if it was for dogs, cats or horses? Yes, I would. If an animal needs to be killed, this is one of the most humane way to do this. Where I'm from, a lot of farm animals die more painful deaths (nobody can afford electric shockers there). This is one of the least painful ways to die. If I had to die and wanted a painless death, I'd choose being stunned with…

"If this is inhumane, how should humane slaughtering look like according to you?" Have you considered the answer is that there isn't a humane way to slaughter and that's why the people in the video had that reaction? Even if you've grown up seeing this, I don't see how you can describe slitting the throat of something that doesn't need to or want to die as humane. It's even more indefensible when there's many meat al…

I see your perspective, I understand that for some people this feels unacceptable.

But I don't think of it this way. I come from a different background (a less developed region of a less developed country), and we set the bar lower where I'm from, because we have more vital problems.

I consider factory farming inhumane, it's bloody concentration camps and they shouldn't exist.

But small, local farms where we take care of the animals (no sadism, animals walk on the grass, play with their babies and whatnot) and let them live until certain (not too old) age are fine. Taking the lives of other animals to get food is normal. And even after we have good substitutes for meat, I would keep some small amount of farms to keep people used to killing animals for food, and take kids there for excursions to show that it's normal.

(There was a Danish TV show where they were showing naked adults to children and let them any ask questions; to make kids used to thinking that naked body is normal and there's nothing shameful about it. I think we should have the same thing but with killing animals.)

> Even if you've grown up seeing this, I don't see how you can describe slitting the throat of something that doesn't need to or want to die as humane.

I guess, my perspective is more about what you have to do rather than what you want to do. The animal may not want to die at the age of 2-3 years, but sorry, it has to; it's better than nothing and it's way better than what animals get in wildlife. Life is not a carte blanche where you can order anything you want.

Growing those animals for food helps sustain their species. If we don't get their meat, who's going to pay it?

> It's even more indefensible when there's many meat alternatives now.

I think something like this map [1] can explain such a difference between your and my perception of this. You sound like a person with ~2 points on "Survival vs. Self-expression scale". Am I right? The place where I'm form has -0.7 points (yes, it's minus there).

[1]: https://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/WVSNewsShow.jsp?ID=428

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#786

Post by top_kekeroni_m8 »

markonen wrote: post #327
adamnemecek wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the name of the place?

Bun2Bun in Helsinki, Finland

It's one of the top 50 vegan restaurants in Europe, so it's obviously very good :) you live in a nice location if that's your local joint!

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#787

Post by top_kekeroni_m8 »

andrew_ wrote: post #195

This is a phenomenon that all too often suffers from the distaste of ruinous empathy [1] and moral superiority. I personally don't care why/how [you] _feel_ about this product. Stories about morality and feelings in the alt food market are insufferable and immediately invoke an epic eye roll. I care about what I eat in this order: 1. Is it healthy? 2. Does it taste good? 3. Is it sustainable? Fake meat, at this point…

So you still eat red meat, even though it is classified as a Group 2A carcinogen and is far from sustainable? You clearly only really care about your taste buds.

Great priorities!

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#788

Post by daddylongstroke »

prteja11 wrote: post #777
daddylongstroke wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are large vegetarian human populations such as people in parts of India. This is a common fallacy. There are at least a couple of studies that show the negative health effects of "vegetarian" Indians after they moved to the US. They were very surprised to find that despite eating the same things as they would in India, their blood work would come back with nutritional deficiencies and contribute to poor overal…

Reading this will give someone a stroke. > the vegetable plots were not sprayed with pesticides (like they would be in the US), and so they consumed a fairly large amount of animal (insect) flesh as a result This doesn’t make any sense. When you eat/cook vegetables, you don’t leave insects on it. You actually wash the vegetable. What you are suggesting is gross and so u healthy.

> Reading this will give someone a stroke.

What do you mean by this? Some things that will give someone a stroke is sitting in front of a computer screen all day, eating highly processed carbs and other "food-like products".

No, my family and I eat everything. Most often right out of the ground without washing. Nobody in my family is on any prescriptions, and no chronic illnesses. Bugs are your friends. Microbes are not the enemy.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#789

Post by NicoJuicy »

sweetheart wrote: post #783
NicoJuicy wrote: post #778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not even remotely true. Eg. Europe doesn't want any meat imported from the US. Different standards... Perhaps educate yourself before claiming things.

Nope, they follow many or all of the extremely problematic standards that are commonplace in the US and Australia. Don’t worry, the EU has published the guidelines for what is considered humane slaughter, so you can verify it for yourself like I did. Also, what did you think of the film? Those are _exactly_ the methods that the EU has approved.

I think the law could use an update for chickens and turkeys for these cases, of that's the case.

And that the video doesn't match my experience with when i tagged along with my dad when i was young, who was a veterinarian.

As I said, they are going to show the worst examples. I haven't seen any of those anywhere here and I've seen a bunch of them and none were like that.

Like i said: And you think that's the default? You know how many people/farmers actually care about animals?

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#790

Post by daddylongstroke »

prteja11 wrote: post #769
cameronh90 wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you feel about keeping your own hens though? I don't eat many eggs, but I find when I cut out dairy and eggs entirely, I do end up suffering some health problems.

If you have a few minutes, you should watch this. Backyard eggs are not ethical either. https://youtu.be/7YFz99OT18k TL:DR; 1) loss of nutrients and problems for the hen when they lay unnatural amount of eggs. 2) lot of issues to these hens such as loss of calcium, yolk and other items stuck inside and causing infection 3) killing these hens when they stop laying eggs (and therefore the implication that their life wa…

>That said, since there are so many vegans out there that don’t have any medical problems...

Where is the data tracking the health of these 'so many vegans'? All of my lifelong vegan friends ran the gamut of health problems from Hashimoto's Disease and other thyroid-related issues, to severe obesity, seemingly from the highly processed food-like-products they ate. Most though were chronically under-weight, and had to take several supplements. Of course, I only know 8 vegans personally and well enough to comment on.

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