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Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

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Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

good point, and while I do not think she should be classified as an incomparable intellectual given what little we know it would seem reasonable to think she probably had greater unrealized potential based on her gender in the same way that I look at someone like George Washington Carver and think what could he have achieved unobstructed by racism.

You raise a good point. My take on this is similar to yours in that if we can wax lyrical about an aristocrat who happens to be a woman, what about the genuises not even afforded the opportunity to engage with the high minds of the time. Literature like this tends to hyperfocus without context and that makes it uncomfortable to read as a fellow learned individual. My point is Im not going to cry a river over some ari…

I agree so much with that first paragraph. All these "women geniuses snubbed by 18th century sexism" are aristocrats (which makes sense because all the men geniuses are also aristocrats). The lack of discussion of people who didn't have the opportunities that, for instance, Ada Lovelace did, is a pretty big misstep imo.

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The foundation of the Royal Society of London in 1660 [...] The society did not admit female fellows until 1945. Withholding education from women for centuries was a profoundly stupid social and religious convention that harmed the progress of civilisation.

Now now. Let's not start that ephemeral idea of progress as being tied to peoples genitalia. Men and women (read People) have contributed enormously to said "progress"

Yeah, historically men more than women have contributed more to society's intellectual progress because institutions literally didn't let women get an education.

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#64
post #9

Arguments like this make me suspicious. Essentially, we've got no way of knowing how much Lady Ranelagh would have achieved if... so that leaves us free to speculate about how she was an unknown genius. There's an infinite supply of these figures for feminist academics to make hay with. Meanwhile, how many people can name an achievement of Robert Boyle, who actually was the greatest English scientist before Newton? M…

> Meanwhile, how many people can name an achievement of Robert Boyle, who actually was the greatest English scientist before Newton? Surely Boyle's law is well taught in high schools?

It certainly used to be!

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#65
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is no real way to measure it, but I suspect we would be surprised to see how many smart people is there who just inspire other famous people to do something and are not so much famous themselves. It really depends on your worldview, whether it is more individualist, or collectivist, if you want to count their accomplishments.

Complicating the matter there is also a tradition of an invisible college , people who are very active in the intellectual tradition of their time but seek to remain obscure rather than feted for their accomplishments.

Yes, and with the Internet, and instant communication, this concept can actually become much more pronounced. I think we are yet to realize how much we are intelectually influenced by other random people (in the sense unknown to us, people from which we read or see something on the Internet) today compared to just few decades ago.

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#66
post #58
post #9

Arguments like this make me suspicious. Essentially, we've got no way of knowing how much Lady Ranelagh would have achieved if... so that leaves us free to speculate about how she was an unknown genius. There's an infinite supply of these figures for feminist academics to make hay with. Meanwhile, how many people can name an achievement of Robert Boyle, who actually was the greatest English scientist before Newton? M…

Reminds me of something I noticed in the discussion about Hedy Lamarr. It's not uncommon to hear people say, "If she was a man, you'd hear about her being a great inventor." But her co-inventor, George Antheil, gets talked about much less , and often only in conjunction with her (search for discussions about either of them on Reddit, Hacker News or the like to see examples of this).

Sometimes I see absurd claims being passed around, such as that Hedy Lamarr invented wifi. It is, perhaps, possible to go to far in rectifying the injustices of history.

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#67
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

straw man? No there is a dead giveaway right here: > "There's an infinite supply of these figures for feminist academics to make hay with." He devalues the content of the article by labeling the author as "feminist academics"? Not just saying "researchers" or "academics" - he needed to point out that it was a woman with a feminist agenda. But the fact that this is the top comment and gets defended (instead of flagged…

You are mistaken that I am devaluing the article by labeling the author as feminist. I'm fine with the author being a feminist. I'm just pointing out that feminists are more likely than other academics to write books like this. That's a statement of the obvious.

> feminists are more likely than other academics to write books like this.

spin that thought just a tiny bit further ... and ask "why is it that women are forced to create their own bubble in which they can grow and achieve the same things us men take for granted", you might be onto a mental break through. one which allows you to look at women's ambition and achievement without resorting to misogyny and devaluing their achievements.

> That's a statement of the obvious.

instead of saying "that's obvious" why not ask yourself the important question: why does it seem obvious when for the opposite sex it's all but obvious. This is simply a further reinforcement of your original flawed point.

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#68
post #9

Arguments like this make me suspicious. Essentially, we've got no way of knowing how much Lady Ranelagh would have achieved if... so that leaves us free to speculate about how she was an unknown genius. There's an infinite supply of these figures for feminist academics to make hay with. Meanwhile, how many people can name an achievement of Robert Boyle, who actually was the greatest English scientist before Newton? M…

I'm not normally one to nitpick but Robert Boyle was Anglo-Irish, not English :)

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#69
post #66
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of something I noticed in the discussion about Hedy Lamarr. It's not uncommon to hear people say, "If she was a man, you'd hear about her being a great inventor." But her co-inventor, George Antheil, gets talked about much less , and often only in conjunction with her (search for discussions about either of them on Reddit, Hacker News or the like to see examples of this).

Sometimes I see absurd claims being passed around, such as that Hedy Lamarr invented wifi. It is, perhaps, possible to go to far in rectifying the injustices of history.

I don't take too much offense at that one; frequency hopping is a hard enough thing to explain to a lay-person, but it is an enabling technology for wifi. It's like saying Albert Einstein invented the atom bomb... wrong, but not an absurd misunderstanding.

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#70
post #41
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a much better argument than all the overheated comments about how I'm a misogynist pig. But still. Here's a comparison. This person: * Discussed refraction with the brilliant philosopher Thomas Hobbes * Computed the first table of antilogarithms * Wrote manuscripts on the circulation of the blood - and may have anticipated Harvey * Also wrote on psychology, and the size of the universe * Conducted som…

> I think this is a much better argument than all the overheated comments about how I'm a misogynist pig. What is the purpose of this kind of victimisation? Nobody said such a thing. Or do you simply want to let everyone know how brave you are to voice such an opinion knowing full well the PC firing squad will be knocking down your door at any minute and yadda yadda? I don't find this kind of flame-baiting productive…

When you say "nobody said such a thing", are you perhaps not aware of

> But the fact that this is the top comment and gets defended (instead of flagged for the misogyny it is) says enough.

So, it a response and reaction to the very same sentiment and detraction as you're objecting to. You just missed the in-between where their comment was in fact referred to as misogynistic.

I think most of us here would prefer to avoid the discussions going in that direction. But it should be allowed to reference such a thing.

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