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Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

nature.com

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Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#41

Post by andrepd »

dash2 wrote: post #29
sohkamyung wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This from the book's description [1] implies that she did much more that that. > Philosophers, mathematicians, politicians, and religious authorities sought her opinion on everything from decimalizing the currency to producing Hebrew grammars. She practiced medicine alongside distinguished male physicians, treating some of the most elite patients in London. Her medical recipes, political commentaries, and testimony c…

I think this is a much better argument than all the overheated comments about how I'm a misogynist pig. But still. Here's a comparison. This person: * Discussed refraction with the brilliant philosopher Thomas Hobbes * Computed the first table of antilogarithms * Wrote manuscripts on the circulation of the blood - and may have anticipated Harvey * Also wrote on psychology, and the size of the universe * Conducted som…

> I think this is a much better argument than all the overheated comments about how I'm a misogynist pig.

What is the purpose of this kind of victimisation? Nobody said such a thing. Or do you simply want to let everyone know how brave you are to voice such an opinion knowing full well the PC firing squad will be knocking down your door at any minute and yadda yadda?

I don't find this kind of flame-baiting productive at all.

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#42

Post by zozbot234 »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #40
dash2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a much better argument than all the overheated comments about how I'm a misogynist pig. But still. Here's a comparison. This person: * Discussed refraction with the brilliant philosopher Thomas Hobbes * Computed the first table of antilogarithms * Wrote manuscripts on the circulation of the blood - and may have anticipated Harvey * Also wrote on psychology, and the size of the universe * Conducted som…

assuming there is greater difficulty to achieve things as someone with a particular quality than the difficulties others face in achieving similar things leads one to naturally consider that without those difficulties perhaps they would have achieved much more. Harrison Bergeron once removed of his obstacles would surely have conquered the world and been the greatest dancer and thinker of his generation, were it not…

> assuming there is greater difficulty to achieve things as someone with a particular quality than the difficulties others face in achieving similar things leads one to naturally consider that without those difficulties perhaps they would have achieved much more.

This might apply to Warner just as well, since it seems that his work was dispersed and then likely destroyed after his death. It just goes to prove that minor and largely unacknowledged figures are pretty much ubiquitous in history. Many of these figures could have valuable books written about them; it's just a matter of doing the work.

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#43

Post by andrepd »

DromedaryCase wrote: post #18
telesilla wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This exactly is the purpose of my branch of feminism! To be liberated from social systems of oppression of all kinds. It's refreshing to see a genial discussion here on HN, challenges aside.

Except oppression isn't necessarily an end and allowing certain groups to define oppression or deriving it from immutable historical fact simply creates another privileged class and gives one a stick to beat oppressors who may not even intentionally participate in so called "oppressive acts" with. I argue fighting oppression is only useful insofar as it presents a utilitarian good for society and that certain levels…

> At the end of the day, there always needs to be a (large) class of street sweepers, accountants and restaurant workers for the benefit of the rest of society.

As long as they're not you.

Furthermore the argument is't "nobody should have to be a garbageman", it's "perhaps garbagemen deserve more than 1/3500th the pay of a CEO"

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#44

Post by SuoDuanDao »

sohkamyung wrote: post #12
dash2 wrote: post #9

Arguments like this make me suspicious. Essentially, we've got no way of knowing how much Lady Ranelagh would have achieved if... so that leaves us free to speculate about how she was an unknown genius. There's an infinite supply of these figures for feminist academics to make hay with. Meanwhile, how many people can name an achievement of Robert Boyle, who actually was the greatest English scientist before Newton? M…

This from the book's description [1] implies that she did much more that that. > Philosophers, mathematicians, politicians, and religious authorities sought her opinion on everything from decimalizing the currency to producing Hebrew grammars. She practiced medicine alongside distinguished male physicians, treating some of the most elite patients in London. Her medical recipes, political commentaries, and testimony c…

Sounds like she was a woman of letters. That used to be more of a thing, someone who corresponded a lot and had an influence on a lot of notable people, one person at a time. It seems that while she would have had a tremendous impact on the intellectual life of her time, it would have been all through personal relationships that wouldn't have left much of a trace when both parties died.

And we have no way of knowing that she'd have wanted it any other way - she clearly had the respect of the people who mattered to her.

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#45

Post by SuoDuanDao »

js8 wrote: post #27
dash2 wrote: post #9

Arguments like this make me suspicious. Essentially, we've got no way of knowing how much Lady Ranelagh would have achieved if... so that leaves us free to speculate about how she was an unknown genius. There's an infinite supply of these figures for feminist academics to make hay with. Meanwhile, how many people can name an achievement of Robert Boyle, who actually was the greatest English scientist before Newton? M…

I think there is no real way to measure it, but I suspect we would be surprised to see how many smart people is there who just inspire other famous people to do something and are not so much famous themselves. It really depends on your worldview, whether it is more individualist, or collectivist, if you want to count their accomplishments.

Complicating the matter there is also a tradition of an invisible college, people who are very active in the intellectual tradition of their time but seek to remain obscure rather than feted for their accomplishments.

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#46

Post by bryanrasmussen »

zozbot234 wrote: post #42
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

assuming there is greater difficulty to achieve things as someone with a particular quality than the difficulties others face in achieving similar things leads one to naturally consider that without those difficulties perhaps they would have achieved much more. Harrison Bergeron once removed of his obstacles would surely have conquered the world and been the greatest dancer and thinker of his generation, were it not…

> assuming there is greater difficulty to achieve things as someone with a particular quality than the difficulties others face in achieving similar things leads one to naturally consider that without those difficulties perhaps they would have achieved much more. This might apply to Warner just as well, since it seems that his work was dispersed and then likely destroyed after his death. It just goes to prove that mi…

good point, and while I do not think she should be classified as an incomparable intellectual given what little we know it would seem reasonable to think she probably had greater unrealized potential based on her gender in the same way that I look at someone like George Washington Carver and think what could he have achieved unobstructed by racism.

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#47

Post by throwaway3699 »

dash2 wrote: post #9

Arguments like this make me suspicious. Essentially, we've got no way of knowing how much Lady Ranelagh would have achieved if... so that leaves us free to speculate about how she was an unknown genius. There's an infinite supply of these figures for feminist academics to make hay with. Meanwhile, how many people can name an achievement of Robert Boyle, who actually was the greatest English scientist before Newton? M…

> Meanwhile, how many people can name an achievement of Robert Boyle, who actually was the greatest English scientist before Newton?

Surely Boyle's law is well taught in high schools?

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#48

Post by wayoutthere »

andrepd wrote: post #41
dash2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a much better argument than all the overheated comments about how I'm a misogynist pig. But still. Here's a comparison. This person: * Discussed refraction with the brilliant philosopher Thomas Hobbes * Computed the first table of antilogarithms * Wrote manuscripts on the circulation of the blood - and may have anticipated Harvey * Also wrote on psychology, and the size of the universe * Conducted som…

> I think this is a much better argument than all the overheated comments about how I'm a misogynist pig. What is the purpose of this kind of victimisation? Nobody said such a thing. Or do you simply want to let everyone know how brave you are to voice such an opinion knowing full well the PC firing squad will be knocking down your door at any minute and yadda yadda? I don't find this kind of flame-baiting productive…

Yeah there’s always this strawman (strawwoman?) argument against feminists for questioning the male-dominated status quo. Misogyny is deeply embedded in society and it’s not productive to go around blaming men for every problem; but neither should we accept that history is a complete telling of the world as it was.

History is dialectical, meaning its interpretation changes over time according to the norms of the times. Many historical accounts themselves are not contemporaneous with their subjects, some coming hundreds of years later. When understood this way, this drive to uncover feminist history is entirely in line with the historical narrativizing process.

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#49

Post by wayoutthere »

dash2 wrote: post #37
watwut wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally no one said you are misogynist pig. One called it "taking offense at a book that celebrates the achievement of a woman, and to question the accuracy of it without having actually read it". I said "bias" in response to someone who called your comment win. You grossly exaggerate reactions and what people said. And you are in fact taking offense on her having freaking article about her. That is it, the article…

You're right, nobody said I was a misogynist pig. I was exaggerating! But only in fun. And I really don't think I took offense at anything.

Just a protip, that kind of exaggeration is poorly received on the Internet because there’s no context to base it in. Even offline, it’s taken as a sign of immaturity and usually met with eye rolls. Probably best to remove it from your rhetorical toolkit if being clearly understood is a goal.

Re: Lady Ranelagh: The Incomparable Life of Robert Boyle’s Sister

#50

Post by vagrantJin »

heresie-dabord wrote: post #33
dash2 wrote: post #9

Arguments like this make me suspicious. Essentially, we've got no way of knowing how much Lady Ranelagh would have achieved if... so that leaves us free to speculate about how she was an unknown genius. There's an infinite supply of these figures for feminist academics to make hay with. Meanwhile, how many people can name an achievement of Robert Boyle, who actually was the greatest English scientist before Newton? M…

> The foundation of the Royal Society of London in 1660 [...] The society did not admit female fellows until 1945. Withholding education from women for centuries was a profoundly stupid social and religious convention that harmed the progress of civilisation.

Now now. Let's not start that ephemeral idea of progress as being tied to peoples genitalia. Men and women (read People) have contributed enormously to said "progress"
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