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Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

nature.com

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Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#231

Post by wycy »

lamontcg wrote: post #61
vmception wrote: post #33

I literally saw the opposite headline about Pzifer versus a strain in India today The actual article said "modest antibody evading capabilities“ I hate that the internet has become this way

"modest antibody evading capabilities“ This generally means that a pseudovirus built with the mutated spike escapes some monoclonal antibodies and has reduced neutralization titers against convalescent sera, which is fairly normal and doesn't add up to an escape mutation. When it mutates enough to form an actual escape mutation that will probably come at a cost to the virus for transmissibility/virulence/viral load b…

> the more it'll have to make those costly evolutionary choices and become less virulent

Why would evolution select for less virulence in a virus like this? Given covid doesn't rely on symptoms to spread like the common cold seems to, it would seem like the evolutionary pressure would be the opposite. Rather than moderate symptoms, instead jack up viral loads in the host as quickly as possible to spread before the immune system gets involved.

/not a biologist

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#232

Post by girvo »

georgeplusplus wrote: post #132
lamontcg wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"modest antibody evading capabilities“ This generally means that a pseudovirus built with the mutated spike escapes some monoclonal antibodies and has reduced neutralization titers against convalescent sera, which is fairly normal and doesn't add up to an escape mutation. When it mutates enough to form an actual escape mutation that will probably come at a cost to the virus for transmissibility/virulence/viral load b…

I’m curious, what is your education background in? Do you have some sort of medical education or this is a regurgitation of some sources you’ve read as a hobbyist? I ask this because you seem to talk from a place of authority and fact and i respect that but typically thought of Ycomb as a place comp sci folks usually congregate.

I’ve no knowledge regarding that commenter, but there are large amounts of diverse experts in various fields on here. It’s one of the reasons I like it so much here

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#233

Post by koheripbal »

jb1991 wrote: post #217

> BioNTech CEO Ugur Sahin told CNBC last month he is “confident” the company’s vaccine, which was developed together with U.S. drugmaker Pfizer, is effective against the variant from India. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/11/india-covid-explainer-what-w...

"effective" like "protects" are nebulous terms.

The reality is that vaccines target multiple proteins and one protein mutation usually does not even evade that specific protein from matching (much).

It's a sliding bumpy scale with each mutation reducing the effectiveness of the vaccine some small random amount.

It's very likely that all the current vaccines confer sufficient immunity to all current variants to a degree that will prevent serious Illness and likely even transmissibility.

But the real takeaway here is that, like flu, we are looking at yearly covid boosters for everyone for years to come.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#234

Post by throwaway0a5e »

girvo wrote: post #232
georgeplusplus wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious, what is your education background in? Do you have some sort of medical education or this is a regurgitation of some sources you’ve read as a hobbyist? I ask this because you seem to talk from a place of authority and fact and i respect that but typically thought of Ycomb as a place comp sci folks usually congregate.

I’ve no knowledge regarding that commenter, but there are large amounts of diverse experts in various fields on here. It’s one of the reasons I like it so much here

>but there are large amounts of diverse experts in various fields on here.

Yeah, and they mostly keep their mouths shut except to confirm what everyone is already saying because trying to correct the narrative or dispel a popularly held belief on a site with a voting mechanism is an exercise in futility. Nobody will read your comment when it's dead so why bother.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#235

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #234
girvo wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve no knowledge regarding that commenter, but there are large amounts of diverse experts in various fields on here. It’s one of the reasons I like it so much here

>but there are large amounts of diverse experts in various fields on here. Yeah, and they mostly keep their mouths shut except to confirm what everyone is already saying because trying to correct the narrative or dispel a popularly held belief on a site with a voting mechanism is an exercise in futility. Nobody will read your comment when it's dead so why bother.

[deleted]

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#236

Post by dqv »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #234
girvo wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve no knowledge regarding that commenter, but there are large amounts of diverse experts in various fields on here. It’s one of the reasons I like it so much here

>but there are large amounts of diverse experts in various fields on here. Yeah, and they mostly keep their mouths shut except to confirm what everyone is already saying because trying to correct the narrative or dispel a popularly held belief on a site with a voting mechanism is an exercise in futility. Nobody will read your comment when it's dead so why bother.

I'm sure plenty of people here enable showdead. I do at least.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#237

Post by stordoff »

sterlind wrote: post #111
reedjosh wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't just walk in. That said I know several people that have had it. Some elderly with existing conditions. Worst case was my aunt who got pneumonia from it. She's in her mid sixties and diabetic. She was in the hospital for a week. Was in the emergency room with my son a few months back, not overflowing or anything, but I wasn't there to track Covid cases.

my coworker's parents caught it. they were in their 50s. the mom became severely ill and was hospitalized for weeks. the dad died. my coworker himself got it and was mostly fine. it's really hard to intuit how wildly variable this disease is when you only have a couple personal data points and distrust/feel detached from the statistics being reported, but it's real.

Going only off personal experience can really skew your perceptions. If I'd've been living away from home at the time, and thus avoided catching it, it would've completely changed the colour of our experiences:

* Mother, 50s - metallic taste for two weeks, loss of appetite, some fatigue * Father, 50s - sore throat for a week * Sister, ~20 / Grandmother, ~80 - both had similar symptoms of fatigue, body aches, sore throat, feeling hot/cold, some change to taste * Grandfather, ~85, multiple pre-existing conditions (COPD, heart failure, prediabetes, history of TIAs) - only reason we knew he had it was due to a positive test

Going off those alone, it seems unpleasant but not too dire. Then you add me in:

* Me, 30 - same symptoms as sister/grandmother for about a week, then ten days in the ICU after my O2 sats dropped to 78 overnight (and remained in the 80s on oxygen). Narrowly avoided ventilation as I responded to CPAP.

Suddenly it seems a lot more serious.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#238

Post by cetiniz »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #220
petertodd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, we can make the same argument in the opposite direction with the example of Seychelles, which in spite of the highest vaccination level in the world, is still seeing significant growth in cases: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-56992121 Apparently they're using 40% Astra Zeneca, 60% Sinopharm; hopefully the issue is simply the latter being ineffective. But as all the success stories with vaccination…

The AstraZeneca and Sinopharm vaccines have similar efficacy: they're about 80% effective at preventing symptoms. They're even more effective at preventing serious illness and death. The Seychelles is still 40% unvaccinated. Even people who are vaccinated have some chance of getting infected, though if they get infected, their chance of showing symptoms is lower, and their chance of ending up in the hospital is much…

It would be easier believing you if you didn't spend all your time on this site defending China...

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#239

Post by miked85 »

danparsonson wrote: post #227
miked85 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But their choices affect me If you and your family get vaccinated, how do their choices affect you?

As far as I know, I haven't had COVID, but other people having it has certainly ruined my year and everyone else's regardless. There's a lot more at stake than just your personal health.

Agreed, but what do you propose? We will never have 100% of people get the vaccine due to either personal choice or medical conditions.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#240

Post by yonaguska »

Pyramus wrote: post #168
chitowneats wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of us have preexisting immunity. For that population, the marginal benefit of vaccination is zero. People should be informed about the risks.

Not really. If you are talking about pre-existing immunity from prior infection, the benefit may be less, and in fact it is recommended not to vaccinate within 6 months of infection. If you are talking about innate immunity or cross-immunity from SARS-Cov-1 it's super rare and hasn't been shown to be relevant in most Western countries. To see the (reduced) benefit even with prior infection just look at the numerous r…

> it is recommended not to vaccinate within 6 months of infection.

24/7 ads and encouragement for people to get the vaccine, almost to the point that it's a moral virtue means that tons of people are getting the vaccine, even having recently caught covid-19.

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