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Why are modern 50mm lenses so damned complicated?

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Re: Why are modern 50mm lenses so damned complicated?

#231
There is a multitude of practical reasons. First of all, modern digital sensors offer resolutions far beyond what normal film material would offer. So 35mm cameras easily beat the resolution of classical medium format film. You need lenses to match that resolution.

Then there are new requirements like AF and optical image stabilisation. With classical prime lenses, focussing often would move the whole lens forward and backward. Or at least some large lens group. That makes the optical construction easier but prevents fast AF. Modern lens designs would use a rather small lens in the middle for focussing. With the reduced mass, the focus speed goes up. Image stabilization also asks for a small lens or lens group to be moved.

But one big difference shouldn't be overlooked either: the abundance of compute power. Today, you can easily simulate a lens system of any complexity. Leica did actually use raytracing to optimize their lenses in the 50ies - but in the absence of computers, they had a room full of people who did the calculations manually. So with a months worth of work, they managed to calculate the path of like 5 rays through their given lens design. Which had like 6 elements. Modern prime lenses can have up to 20 lens elements, zoom lenses up to 30.

For a good comparison about different lens design approaches, one should look at Leica lenses. Because Leica both still makes classical manual focus lenses for the M system, which typically have like 5-7 lens elements, and absolutely modern style lenses for their SL system, which have twice or more lens elements. In each design philosophy, they are making some of the best lenses, cost usually not the top priority :). Which makes a good base for comparisons. For example, they quite recently both introduced a new 35f2 lens for the M and the SL mount.

Personally, I am quite fond of the prime lenses with few lens elements. While modern glass coatings can pretty much eliminate reflections on glass surfaces, every single glass-air boundary does create reflections. So while the modern designs are technically close to perfect, I think those designs with few lens elements have a special image rendering. Very contrasty, lots of character.

Re: Why are modern 50mm lenses so damned complicated?

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great camera. Don't discount the 3rd party E-mount lens makers, such as Samyang. If you are unsure what to get next, I suggest looking at this list of every E-mount full-frame lens: https://briansmith.com/sony-a7-a7r-a7s-lens-guide/

Don't forget rokinon. The sharpest lens I've ever used was my cheap manual rokinon 35mm. It was heavy as hell but holy crap was it sharp.

Rokinon and Samyang are the same company. For some of their lenses, you can actually buy the same lens with either branding.

Re: Why are modern 50mm lenses so damned complicated?

#234
post #60
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched the second Hobbit movie in 48fps and it was a horrible experience. Everything looked fake, which is how I imagine it actually looked in real life. Props seemed made of plastic, makeup looked like makeup, etc. Also, when there was a cut to a new scene, for a few seconds my brain thought the movie was playing faster. Like those old black and white movies of the early 20th century.

That weird speed effect is because they kept the shutter open longer on each frame, so there's more motion blur.

Oh thanks now I understand some specific sensations of uneven speed in movies. I thought it might be linked to the player (not), the codec (not)...

Re: Why are modern 50mm lenses so damned complicated?

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, you got a car for $2,000?

Seems right for a used Civic in good working condition. And it will get you wherever the beautiful shots are without giving trouble.

Huh. I’ve never owned a car or tried to buy one—I live in NYC and I never got around to getting a driver’s license. I was just under the impression cars cost many times that much at minimum.

Re: Why are modern 50mm lenses so damned complicated?

#236
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of reason I even bother with full frame is wide open. Any smartphone these days can give perfectly good sharp photos. I lug the beast around to get shots you can't get with a smartphone.

Shooting wide open is fashionable because it’s a sign of expensive gear. Once artificial bokeh is perfected I expect people will stop obsessing over blurry backgrounds.

It's the new high dynamic range - splattered everywhere in a gatekeepery effort to substitute "I have spent a lot on camera equipment" for "I know how to compose photographs in an interesting way".

Re: Why are modern 50mm lenses so damned complicated?

#237
post #3

I have a bunch of full frame lenses. Recently I looked at some very old ones I haven't used in a long time. I thought they are faulty (soft). After some diagnosing I found that it is not the fault of lenses but rather in the meantime I have started looking at images at 1:1 in Lightroom and gotten used to ridiculously sharp images from new cameras. Have you ever watched an old TV show and despaired how unwatchable it…

>Have you ever watched an old TV show and despaired how unwatchable it is because of low quality of image? Yes, that's the same thing -- our tastes change. I've had the opposite reaction - I'd watch something I've seen before in 4k remastered or something and it would be a worse experience because the extra details reveal the low quality tricks you can get away with on lower reproduction quality. I've even noticed po…

I had the opposite reaction too. One weekend an old friend was watching Back to the Future in High Def. It took away from the experience, it was like watching a play the resolution was so sharp. I couldn't enter into the fiction of the story any longer, it prevented the suspension of disbelief because it was so realistic. I think that grainier lower quality medium facilitated the imagination somehow, much like reading a book does.

Re: Why are modern 50mm lenses so damned complicated?

#238
post #24

What I don't understand isn't the design of the lenses, which are chasing ever-tightening windows of precision in a competetive market with high margins and discriminating consumers. Of course they're going to be overdesigned. What gets me is that lens distortion is a fully reversible convolution. It's not lossy, at all. Or rather, it's only lossy in the sense that the existing quantization in the sensor is already l…

There are already manufacturers who do in-body correction alongside their lens design to get results that would require a ton more glass; Olympus are one. Sites like DPReview use it as a relentless talking point that those manufacturers are sub-par compared to the big advertisers.

It's the photography equivalent of "if you were a real audiophile you'd only use pure analogue signals, digital destroys the sound".

Re: Why are modern 50mm lenses so damned complicated?

#239
post #24

What I don't understand isn't the design of the lenses, which are chasing ever-tightening windows of precision in a competetive market with high margins and discriminating consumers. Of course they're going to be overdesigned. What gets me is that lens distortion is a fully reversible convolution. It's not lossy, at all. Or rather, it's only lossy in the sense that the existing quantization in the sensor is already l…

Virtually every DSLR and mirrorless cameras will correct for distortion in camera. On Nikon it is called Auto Distortion Control, you can turn it on and off after the fact for raw images. Lightroom and most other photo developing software supports this as well, with profiles specific to each lens and focal length. Turning it on results in the image being cropped very slightly as a result of the image being "straightened out" in camera for Nikon, or with a slightly larger overall size otherwise. Besides that very noticeable change there are physical limits on what the software can do, a lens with less distortion will have more detail as a result

Re: Why are modern 50mm lenses so damned complicated?

#240
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now do the same with Sigma SD1 and quality lens and you'd be frustrated with the "sharp images from new cameras" the same way you consider old ones "faulty". Some things can't be unseen once you see them the first time.

I really like my DP3m, but (with static subjects, which honestly you need with the Sigma, too) modern multi-shot implementation (especially the Panasonic one) get pretty close.

Yeah, Sigma is clunky, 60% of my shots end up out of focus, but the best shots I get are simply unbelievable. Zooming in to a pixel level is way better than anything else I saw, including 100MP medium format ones, the pictures feel alive. Never experienced anything like that with another camera.
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