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Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

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Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#161

Post by Impossible »

socialist_coder wrote: post #150

Just to have a bit of a counter argument from me, a game developer who loves games and has worked in the US games industry for the majority of my 20 years career: If your argument is "You can make more at a FAANG company" - well yeah, you can. You don't work in gaming because you want to make the top salary. You work in gaming because you love games and you enjoy having all your coworkers also love games and being ab…

It's also possible to work on games or game like software at FAANG, not crunch (although FAANG companies have plenty of other toxic qualities that can make them worse than a game job in subtle ways) and get paid a FAANG salary.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#162

Post by [deleted] »

gpm wrote: post #36
Raed667 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm struggling with this, I can't find a formula to translate US salaries to European ones (UK, FR, DE, mainly). On the one hand in the US if you save a lot, you can retire early and move somewhere cheap. On the other hand in Europe a lot of things are covered for you without having to deduct them from the salary. If anyone has researched this subject I'd love some links.

It seems like you should just be comparing pre-tax salary converted into the same currency?

[deleted]

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#163

Post by paxys »

socialist_coder wrote: post #150

Just to have a bit of a counter argument from me, a game developer who loves games and has worked in the US games industry for the majority of my 20 years career: If your argument is "You can make more at a FAANG company" - well yeah, you can. You don't work in gaming because you want to make the top salary. You work in gaming because you love games and you enjoy having all your coworkers also love games and being ab…

The whole "do it for the love of the craft not money" is bullshit propaganda that only serves to keep labor costs low. The entities on top are large multi-billion dollar corporations who are running a business, just like any other industry. And this has been more and more apparent in recent years seeing just how anti-consumer the video games industry is getting.

If a Google recruiter told me "take a low salary and work 70+ hours a week because you love writing software and all your coworkers love writing software and it's a great environment" I'd (justifiably) laugh at their face – enough though I really do love everything about software. But somehow this is completely fine in gaming.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#164

Post by dv_dt »

fanciestManimal wrote: post #103
dv_dt wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus one carries a huge high side uncertainty in costs from healthcare in the US.

This is true for people in the middle to the bottom of the pay spectrum in the US. From experience where insurance paid ~1 million for a significant healthcare expense and my out of pocket was $4k -- when you are in a field with such a low unemployment rate and generally good benefits, it's a non issue. The month premium we pay is a non-issue. The maximum out of pocket is a non-issue. That being said, the way healthc…

I think if you read the fine print, it is quite possible to get hit by high out of pocket costs in surprising circumstances, but also if you have an extended illness. You may very well have had great coverage, but it's all to easy to end up in a uncovered circumstance. Most medical bankruptcies are people who have health insurance.

Also as the average age of many high tech companies increases, expect more cost limiting changes from offered benefits.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#165

Post by ipaddr »

ryandrake wrote: post #130
jupp0r wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advice is to walk after "Company: We'll offer you $100K." and go to "Comparable companies". If there aren't any then you lied with point 1.

That's not negotiation, though. That's just walking away when the number isn't high enough. Negotiation implies some kind of discussion: back-and-forth, give-and-take. I've rarely experienced any discussion actually working. It's usually the company, who has all the power, giving a "take it or leave it" offer, and that's it.

Depends on the size. Larger places not so much but if you talk to the owner during your interview you can go back and forth.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#166

Post by BeetleB »

socialist_coder wrote: post #150

Just to have a bit of a counter argument from me, a game developer who loves games and has worked in the US games industry for the majority of my 20 years career: If your argument is "You can make more at a FAANG company" - well yeah, you can. You don't work in gaming because you want to make the top salary. You work in gaming because you love games and you enjoy having all your coworkers also love games and being ab…

> Just to have a bit of a counter argument from me

You didn't supply any kind of argument. Your comment can be reduced to "If you want a good salary, you are not one of us."

As a person who loved gaming and wanted to work in that industry, you are the reason I didn't go for it.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#167

Post by whoisjuan »

socialist_coder wrote: post #150

Just to have a bit of a counter argument from me, a game developer who loves games and has worked in the US games industry for the majority of my 20 years career: If your argument is "You can make more at a FAANG company" - well yeah, you can. You don't work in gaming because you want to make the top salary. You work in gaming because you love games and you enjoy having all your coworkers also love games and being ab…

This is a fair take, but modern gaming companies have similar margins as other consumer tech companies since they are operating on profitable business models such as subscription and micro-transactions.

The gaming industry has been playing the same card movie studios play which is “This is a passion industry. Come and work for us but we can only offer this range of compensation and this type of contracts because we are making this single thing that needs to first break even before it can even generate a profit”.

The problem with that idea is that gaming in general doesn’t operate that like that anymore. Game developers can now tap into scalable royalty programs like Xbox Game Pass, PlayStation Now and Apple Arcade. Or they can build free games with micro-transactions.

Building AAA games is still a huge investment. But gaming companies nowadays have way more avenues to generate revenue. So it’s sad that they still play that card to pay lower wages than in other tech-verticals.

If your love for games is such that you are willing to get a lower salary just to be part of that creation process, that’s fair. But expect to be dealt the same “do it for the experience, not for the money” card even when you reach levels of proficiency and skill that deserve higher wages.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#168

Post by blacktriangle »

paulpauper wrote: post #100

being a game dev. seems like the worst tech job: few perks, minimal promotion opportunity, no ipo riches, no buyout riches, no lucrative stock options, high failure rate, low pay relative to revenues and exec pay, long hours, no credit, low salary cap, etc.

It's all about the environment. The pay was shit, but having the devs on another project letting you play their in-progress work and give real feedback at lunch or playing board games with the design team whose job is to literally go out to Walmart, buy board games, and come back and analyze them, then go home and play WoW in your company guild, its just not an experience you can get anywhere else.

It may be an unpopular opinion, but game devs are paid correctly since game companies offer an experience and culture that is totally their own. It's too bad one eventually needs to move on to a inferior environment in search of more income and free time.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#169

Post by ctvo »

stewx wrote: post #160

I looked at the salaries people are posting, and what I am seeing is people (at least the ones comfortable with posting this kind of info on the Internet) rapidly climbing from $30-50k/yr USD to $75-150k/yr USD. These are excellent wages. They may be lower than outside the video game industry, but by any other standard they are phenomenally good wages, in the top 1% globally and at least the top 10-20% in developed c…

It isn't about how the salary compares globally. It's about how does this compare to their peers.

The asymmetrical nature of information available to employees vs. information available to the company generally leads to employees undervaluing themselves. By sharing what others in the company or in the region make for the same job, we help people ask for more.

Re: Game developers sharing their salaries on Twitter

#170

Post by kgantchev »

ryandrake wrote: post #130
jupp0r wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advice is to walk after "Company: We'll offer you $100K." and go to "Comparable companies". If there aren't any then you lied with point 1.

That's not negotiation, though. That's just walking away when the number isn't high enough. Negotiation implies some kind of discussion: back-and-forth, give-and-take. I've rarely experienced any discussion actually working. It's usually the company, who has all the power, giving a "take it or leave it" offer, and that's it.

I recommend reading "Never Split The Difference," the book is great and it has served me well in negotiations.

Where you're right: yes, you need to foster the conversation. It's a skill that one develops with practice.

Where you're wrong: I negotiate for my consulting business and I can guarantee you that the companies don't have "the power." The power is held by whoever is better at negotiating. If you're good at negotiating, you will hold the power.

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