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The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

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Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#471

I've always wondered what it would be like to suddenly lose the ability to build higher technology like computer chips. Obviously this is just a shortage and not the same as manufacturing just vanishing, but the effects will be interesting to observe.

The industry has largely forgotten how to make stuff without chips. That's why I am telling people that a global chip shortage, if something happens to Taiwan, would bring the industry not back into fifties, but into the iron age. The further the tech ladder you go, the harder you fall if somebody takes out your engineering bay.

> if something happens to Taiwan

TSMC is building a megafactory in Phoenix AZ which should help distribute that risk. It will take several years to complete however.

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did not offend me at all. I'm not a kid. I am just offering a mirror from the perspective of someone who has actually lived the kind of thing you are proposing. Look at it a different way: Back then I thought what you are proposing was sensible enough that I spent two million dollars to execute precisely that strategy. I ended-up losing a business that I built over ten years because of that decision at a time whe…

I appreciate it, but still apologize for being flippant. I did intend the comment to be about the dog washing startup that I assumed to be a fairly small business. Not buying the (presumed to be in the 10,000 quantity range) MCUs they needed ahead of time, knowing that they will be the single linchpin chip that there will be no pin-compatible replacement for, is what I found to be ridiculous. I hope you find that per…

That's the good-old hindsight is 20/20 business, isn't it?

No need to apologize at all. This is conversation. We all have much to learn.

Today, what you suggested is precisely what I do. I try to make sure there are at least three pin/function-compatible chips that can swap in for any given device. Preferably from different manufacturers. I also talk to distributors to get a sense of volume. I prefer to buy devices and components that are being manufactured and stocked in larger quantities. A silly example of this is that it is much easier to find a 47 uH inductor in stock than a 50 uH part. One has easy substitutes, the other can turn into a nightmare.

As for buying 10K microprocessors, again, that can be a tough decision to make. On the financial front, you could be talking about a $50K to $200K expenditure before you sell any product. In terms of logistics, if I have $200K in microprocessors in stock and I can't buy RS422 drivers I can't build a product. Which means that the decision of locking-up cash in the warehouse can quickly turn into a nearly all-or-nothing proposition. In other words, if you are going to stockpile microprocessors you might have to stockpile another $500K in parts in order to ensure that the investment isn't worthless if there's a shortage.

And then there's the issue of what you do with your nice pile of components if nobody is buying anything. As 2020 has proven, if you are in the wrong category, you could literally sit there for a year without selling much. That's what really hurts when you locked-up a pile of cash in the warehouse. We have a client who's business went down 80% last year. They had to shrink from 50 employees to three. They had to further shrink from a 100K square foot facility to a 22,000 sq ft building. And business is slowly crawling up. Had they made a huge cash investment early last year they would have been out of business by now.

In the electronics manufacturing business you have at least three tiers of manufacturers.

One is the super small shop that just sends everything out to contract manufacturers, along with parts they purchase themselves.

The next is the small-to-medium shop that graduated to having the CM provide parts. In other words, you design your product and fully trust your contract manufacturer to handle the supply chain. CM's will work with distributors to stock components and build boards. There is no way CM's are going to stock components clients don't need just to be sure they have a supply for a year's worth of boards. The only components CM's might stock in large quantities are parts others are using that are low cost. A simple example of this might be resistors.

The next level is a case where a manufacturer has enters into a contract with the distributor and the CM to have "bonded" inventory. They commit to buying a certain quantity of product --no matter what-- and, in exchange, the distributor and CM will inventory enough product to meet the demands of that contract. For example, you might commit to manufacturing 10K LED bulbs per month and need to ensure a supply of, say, half a million LEDs. You sign a contract and this happens. The advantage of this approach is that you are billed as product is delivered rather than for the entire half million LEDs you bonded. Of course, you are buying 10K bulbs per month. It's a machine, once it is set in motion you have to meet your obligation.

The next level might be manufacturers that do their own in-house assembly. I've lived in all of the above categories. The in-house assembly case can give you a lot of control and even lower your COGS, but you are now paying for everything pretty much upfront.

Once you start adding other component classes (mechanical, optical, etc.) things get even more complicated.

Each of these models has a financial formula associated with it. I have no idea where CCSI (the dog washing machine guys sit). My guess is it isn't a high volume business. I would further guess they make boards in batches of 100 or so (I could be wrong). When you don't know a pandemic is coming and the world is going to come to a halt, buying enough to make 100 boards a month is the right decision. If someone suggested they should buy enough to make boards for the entire year it would not sound like good advise unless the cost basis of those boards was such that it materially affected profitability in a significant way.

Business has become so competitive and fast that everyone pretty much ends-up adopting a JIT (Just in Time) manufacturing methodology. Anything else is suicide.

Here's another take: Do I invest money parking components in a warehouse for a year --just in case-- or do I put it into marketing, R&D and new product development? I think I can say that, under normal circumstances, it would be irresponsible (as learned the hard way) to park it in the warehouse. No crystal balls.

As someone else in this thread mentioned, I too wish there were more documented stories of business failures. That's where the real lessons for all of us lie.

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#473
post #120

I think a lot of folks underestimate how fabulously complicated it is to fab a chip. Yes, you can diy it in your garage, here's a wonderful implementation. http://sam.zeloof.xyz/first-ic/ But take a look at the specialized tools they used. Heck, think about proper handling of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid and this is just a simple amp. imagine trying to make something with lots of gates? Making a si…

If making a chip is so hard, then why do the FAANG companies own this world, not e.g. TSMC or Samsung?

I'm not quite sure I follow. I guess the same reason AMF isn't really much of a thing anymore? I don't think making a pinsetter would be a big deal now with ready access to parts and tools, but I'd imagine it was quite a feat in the 40's.

I think I need more description around "owning the world". Sure, those leisure focused companies are pocketing big dollars, good for them! But they don't really do much, they're only meaningful given the backdrop of the larger economy.

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#474
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most new cars still suck / Do not offer meaningful new features. In terms of bells and whistles? Yeah, not that much. But in terms of safety tech, there has been a huge progress in last 10 years and it’s not slowing down. New cars are not only getting harder to crash, but in case of crash they’re getting better and better at protecting you. Safety is main reason why I update my cars every few years, even tho it’s p…

A couple of days ago I was watching a dramatic video showing test collisions of old cars vs modern cars. I was surprised by how much safer a 2016 car was than a 1992 car. Not to mention the 1959 death trap Bel Air. (It's alarming though that 1992 is now the olden days.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TikJC0x65X0

Maybe that was better for society.

In those days, dare devils didnt last long.

Now, they can crash and kill, and drive again in a few hours.

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that this is a potential big problem, but I had to stop reading when the dog washing company blamed needing to respin a new board on a chip being out of stock due to this. I'm sorry, but if you aren't buying enough chips to build all the boards you want to build of a revision, this is just what happens, chip shortage or no. Stuff gets obsoleted all the time, it doesn't take a chip shortage. Blaming a black swan…

> I had to stop reading when the dog washing company blamed needing to respin a new board on a chip being out of stock due to this ... > if you aren't buying enough chips to build all the boards you want to build of a revision Friendly advice: If you are going to be a consultant to industry, don't post comments like this. As someone who has been manufacturing tech products for over thirty years, my first reaction to…

thanks for the very interesting story. i never went beyond the prototyping stage for the products i designed. i always thought that small scale production would be an easy next step. i understand how wrong i could have been thinking it was "easy".

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is always what happens when prices go up. The whole point is to reduce the number of buyers who want the product at that price so that there is enough supply to fill the remaining demand. That is how a supply and demand curve works.

What I meant to say is that, even with these inflated prices, everything is sold out: even if I want to pay $2500 for that 3090 GPU, I cannot get it.

You can get them for around $3000 on auction sites.

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#477
post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had to stop reading when the dog washing company blamed needing to respin a new board on a chip being out of stock due to this ... > if you aren't buying enough chips to build all the boards you want to build of a revision Friendly advice: If you are going to be a consultant to industry, don't post comments like this. As someone who has been manufacturing tech products for over thirty years, my first reaction to…

First off, I really hope things go well for you and thank you for sharing your amazing story. I went through something similar in the software side of things. Second, that was a great post and I want to read your (I’m sure imaginary) blog. It was like a mini business education in modern manufacturing. Finally, I am amazed you’re able to write this with no bitterness. Hats off to you.

Oh, there's emotion there. No question about it. Not bitter. Angry, maybe. I made a really bad decision because I thought business was going to take off like crazy that year. We were running on all cylinders. It was going to be the culmination of a ten year effort.

You don't go through something like that without the emotion staying with you. Yet, if you are going to move on you have to be able to put it in a drawer and only look at it every so often just to make sure you are not going to do something dumb again. As time passes you have less time to make mistakes like that.

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don’t want a monthly car payment pay a monthly car payment so later you can have a smaller monthly car payment?

I think the idea is that you accrue the interest yourself instead of paying it to someone else.

You don't have to put it into a savings account. I do the same thing but into a stock fund.

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#479
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first is a statement of the third law of thermodynamics. The second clause is just obviously true. Go call up Fujitsu and try to order more of a chip they made for you in 1.5um in 1988.

Yes of course the equipment breaks down but older equipment is easy to repair. It is very rare for a fab to be decommissioned and the equipment scrapped - in fact I have never heard of this happening to any production facility with 6” or larger wafers. That equipment will go to de-bottlenecking at some other fab and net production capacity for the node will increase . Obviously many very old chips are out of producti…

The corrollary to your point then is that all these fabs have immense idle capacity of exiting installed tools which they aren't using but retain simply because nothing ever "broke down"? Obviously that's ridiculous.

You're interpreting me pedantically while actually agreeing with my point, I think. Old processes don't have the capacity they used to[1]. If you don't like "stuff breaks" then how about "eventually the ROI on the equipment goes negative relative to the business so the line is idled and the fab real estate repurposed to make more profitable modern stuff." OK?

[1] Which, again, is just a "duh" kind of point and I can't believe we're arguing about it.

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#480
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, a lot of people would buy yachts if they were only $1000.... since the price will never get there, they will never get their yacht that they want. Does that mean there is a yacht shortage? If chip costs stay high, that just means that is how expensive chips are.

So what's your definition of a shortage then? We're in a situation where a lot of people who want microchips aren't able to buy them because the suppliers aren't able to produce enough of them. What is the difference between that and a shortage? If we don't produce enough food for everyone to eat, we would be in a similar situation: the price would rise until only the people with the most money could afford food. We…

You can see the definition of a shortage here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortage

The tl;dr is that a shortage is when there are people who are willing to pay more than the market price for an item but something is preventing the market from raising prices.. either because of laws against price gouging, price caps, or because manufacturers have some other incentive not to raise prices.

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