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Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

nytimes.com

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Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#71

Post by wcchandler »

Lewisham wrote: post #5

I'm actually most concerned about the lifetime of the batteries. From what I've read, the batteries top out at 8 years, and presumably degrade before that. As the $20k Chevy Cruze is the same chassis as the Volt, I guess the batteries come out at ~$15k. That's a huge amount of money to renew use of your $40k car after 8 years (unless you see that $15k as some sort of investment in the environment). The Volt design co…

I felt this way too, at first, when looking into a Prius. But the batteries are usually warrantied for 100,000 miles. They're also about $2,500 + labor for a new one from a dealer. While this is high for a "maintenance" cost, it's not too bad. Especially considering most people trade their vehicles in every 8 years which would be when it starts to crap out.

Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#72

Post by masklinn »

khafra wrote: post #69
georgieporgie wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mid-range sedans can easily be driven into the 40s. Really? Here are some numbers from Kiplinger's "best midsize sedan" list from 2009: * Sonata 32mpg highway. * Mazda 6 30mpg highway. * Chevy Malibu 33mpg highway. * Nissan Altima 31mpg highway. http://www.kiplinger.com/columns/car/archive/2008/car1207.ht... Cars.com mentions the best in each class for 2011, and it's the Nissan Versa and Sentra, each at 34mpg for the…

Daimyoyo was talking about actual mileage, not EPA mileage. Simply by holding 60mph or below, you can easily get 10-20% above the EPA highway rating; 15-30% if there's a lot of traffic around you going the same speed.

> Simply by holding 60mph or below

It varies from car to car really, depending on engine details, transmission gear ratios, transmission type and aerodynamics. With my previous car the best mileage was achieved around 110km/h (68mph). At this speed, it was in the high 40s.

Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#73

Post by artmageddon »

adrianN wrote: post #56
ChuckMcM wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An internal combustion motor is, at best, about 20% efficient [1], whereas if you burn the same fossil fuel in an electric power plant using a combined cycle configuration you can reach 60% [2]. Now the electric company loses some of that by sending over wires to your house (or where ever the charger is) but its still a big win. What that means in mathematical terms is that if you took the same fossil fuel we burn to…

When calculating the efficiency of electric cars you must also take into account the losses from the battery. I'm pretty sure charging a battery is not 100% efficient.

Good point-my understanding is that you do lose some capacity with each charge over time. The one thing that the parent should've noted - which would support his point - is that oil must also be transported across oceans / highways to refineries and then transported again to individual gas stations, which is in itself a drain on resources. Being able to send power over power lines, I imagine, beats those as well.

Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#74

Post by JoeAltmaier »

Derbasti wrote: post #67

Can someone explain to me, why, exactly, this should be better than a hybrid design? A hybrid design can use a comparatively tiny combustion engine together with an electric motor, which saves fuel consumption and does not need to be plugged in ever. The Volt needs both a full-fledged combustion engine and a full-fledged electric engine and needs to be plugged in after each drive. That sounds basically like combining…

Well, 80mph as the article indicated.

Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#75

Post by randallsquared »

philwelch wrote: post #13
BadassFractal wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have credit scores.

If you have to pay to see your score, it's not gamified, just quantified.

I use creditkarma, which provides a score for free (though it might not always be quite accurate; I think they reverse-engineered the criteria).

Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#76

Post by artmageddon »

sliverstorm wrote: post #15
daimyoyo wrote: post #12

I've said before and I'll say again: Electric cars will not gain widespread acceptance until you can travel the equivalent of a tank of gas on one charge. Tesla motors is close, but you need at least 300 and closer to 400 miles per charge.

400 miles? You kidding? I have never driven anything that can go 400 miles per tank- I typically refill at 200-250, and some of my bikes I'd refill at 80.

I have a 2011 Honda Accord (inline-4 engine) that gets, on average, 29 miles per gallon, and holds 18 gallons of fuel. I've easily done over 400 miles on a single tank, and have even come close to 500(though at that point I was kind of sweating bullets thinking I'd get stranded).

Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#77

Post by Derbasti »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #74
Derbasti wrote: post #67

Can someone explain to me, why, exactly, this should be better than a hybrid design? A hybrid design can use a comparatively tiny combustion engine together with an electric motor, which saves fuel consumption and does not need to be plugged in ever. The Volt needs both a full-fledged combustion engine and a full-fledged electric engine and needs to be plugged in after each drive. That sounds basically like combining…

Well, 80mph as the article indicated.

Are you saying the Prius (for example) does not reach 80 mph but the Volt does?

Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#78

Post by anamax »

wcchandler wrote: post #71
Lewisham wrote: post #5

I'm actually most concerned about the lifetime of the batteries. From what I've read, the batteries top out at 8 years, and presumably degrade before that. As the $20k Chevy Cruze is the same chassis as the Volt, I guess the batteries come out at ~$15k. That's a huge amount of money to renew use of your $40k car after 8 years (unless you see that $15k as some sort of investment in the environment). The Volt design co…

I felt this way too, at first, when looking into a Prius. But the batteries are usually warrantied for 100,000 miles. They're also about $2,500 + labor for a new one from a dealer. While this is high for a "maintenance" cost, it's not too bad. Especially considering most people trade their vehicles in every 8 years which would be when it starts to crap out.

> Especially considering most people trade their vehicles in every 8 years which would be when it starts to crap out.

You forget that they sell those old cars to someone who typically resells them to someone else who then uses that car for another 10 years. If the car has to be junked that can't happen. If the battery needs to be replaced, the amount of money you get goes down significantly.

Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#79

Post by sliverstorm »

masklinn wrote: post #29
sliverstorm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

400 miles? You kidding? I have never driven anything that can go 400 miles per tank- I typically refill at 200-250, and some of my bikes I'd refill at 80.

Drive more efficient cars? With bigger tanks? The small sedans I usually drive pretty much always have ranges of above 800km (500 miles), and my range record on a single tank was with a turbo-diesel 405[0], with careful driving and a 70L tank (huge for a mid-range sedan, I recognize this, most mid-ranges are around 50L these days) was above 1400km (870 miles). [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peugeot_405

I generally do drive somewhat efficient cars. My most recent car, an old Outback, is the worst I've ever driven at 28mpg typ.

It's just been my experience that more efficient cars have smaller tanks.

Re: Chevy Volt: Is This Our Future?

#80

Post by sliverstorm »

Derbasti wrote: post #67

Can someone explain to me, why, exactly, this should be better than a hybrid design? A hybrid design can use a comparatively tiny combustion engine together with an electric motor, which saves fuel consumption and does not need to be plugged in ever. The Volt needs both a full-fledged combustion engine and a full-fledged electric engine and needs to be plugged in after each drive. That sounds basically like combining…

I don't think the idea is that it is better than a hybrid. I gather that idea is consumers get to "test-drive" the electric concept for the first 40 miles of every "tank", and that they will begin to realize that's all they need.

Currently a hybrid like the Prius is largely indistinguishable to the driver from a gas-only car. It sounds to me like GM is aiming to give drivers the electric car experience, with the gasoline as a safety net.

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