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California population declines for first time in more than a century

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491–500 of 543 posts

Re: California population declines for first time in more than a century

#491
post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, no, 1% isn’t not a low tax rate when’s starter single family home in the Bay Area is $1M.

Californian valuations are fixed in their increases by prop 13, so over time your property taxes will go down, restive to inflation at least.

Sure, if housing prices increase at the same rate as the last 30 years there is a huge benefit, but regardless if you buy today you’ll have a massive property tax bill.

Re: California population declines for first time in more than a century

#492
post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at SF market history, you see mostly rapid growth with short term declines from peaks which are quickly erased. Is there risk? Sure, but its hard to find a 5-10 year period where you lose even if you hit the bottom of one of the drops, which are usually only a year or two from the peak.

10 years to recover from 2006 peak, not adjusting for inflation. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SFXRSA

Right, so if you pick the absolute worst moment to buy, you still make a profit in 10 years. Sounds like a good bet to me, especially considering you have to live somewhere and pay rent or a mortgage.

Re: California population declines for first time in more than a century

#493
post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often remark that SF and the valley are a flawed democratic institution: it has a very high immigrant population that would vote against the majority of things that get voted. Immigrants are generally tough on crime, Yimby, anti-tax, etc.

Really? I’m an immigrant and I wish taxes were higher so we could get healthcare and more help for the homeless

As a cluster immigrants are very conservative. Also makes sense to not want to get taxed on benefits you dont get.

Re: California population declines for first time in more than a century

#494
post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandparents bought their house on the SJC - Los Gatos border for $30k in 1968. It sold in 2019 for $1.4M. That's what piggyback second mortgages are for. There are also subsidized loans for first-time buyers in the US called FHA loans that allow 3.5% to 10% down payments.

> $30k in 1968. It sold in 2019 for $1.4M. and the same $30k invested in the S&P 500 in 1968 would have earned you 186x - or $5,580,000 (using http://www.moneychimp.com/features/market_cagr.htm as a guide to calculate returns). And yet, nobody bats an eye that this amazing returns of stocks, and continues to complain that housing prices are too high today, when it was "cheap" in the past. But was it really cheap in t…

They bought it using the GI Bill loan assistance program. They didn't have anywhere near $30k in savings.

Re: California population declines for first time in more than a century

#495
post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $30k in 1968. It sold in 2019 for $1.4M. and the same $30k invested in the S&P 500 in 1968 would have earned you 186x - or $5,580,000 (using http://www.moneychimp.com/features/market_cagr.htm as a guide to calculate returns). And yet, nobody bats an eye that this amazing returns of stocks, and continues to complain that housing prices are too high today, when it was "cheap" in the past. But was it really cheap in t…

But I don’t need stocks in order to survive. I do need shelter though. As long as housing is seen as an investment it’s not going to be affordable.

you don't need to own property to live there - you can rent.

Buying and owning property will always be an investment. If this investment is worth it (aka, it has outsized returns), then it can not be affordable.

Re: California population declines for first time in more than a century

#496
post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $30k in 1968. It sold in 2019 for $1.4M. and the same $30k invested in the S&P 500 in 1968 would have earned you 186x - or $5,580,000 (using http://www.moneychimp.com/features/market_cagr.htm as a guide to calculate returns). And yet, nobody bats an eye that this amazing returns of stocks, and continues to complain that housing prices are too high today, when it was "cheap" in the past. But was it really cheap in t…

But you can't live inside stocks. House is not just investment.

Inelastic demand items: housing.. like water, food, heating.

I guess my grandparents could've squatted in the Santa Cruz mountains for a while and kept saving to buy stocks. ;-)

Re: California population declines for first time in more than a century

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had thought we were safe out here, a good hour and fifteen minutes from DC in traffic. But remote working has overturned those expectations.

Anecdotally: my house in Oak Park has barely appreciated at all since 2005, but my brother in Bolingbrook --- an hour outside of Chicago --- is making a mint on his house. What's the property tax situation like where you live, versus the inner-ring counties?

Property tax in our county is the same as Montgomery County, the inner ring county. I think one of the factors in play in DC is the inner ring counties are topped out in terms of what a dual GS scale couple can leverage themselves into. That might be driving different dynamics than a city where a large fraction of jobs don’t have this tightly constrained salary scale.

Although, parallel to your observation with your brother: my parents’ house in the traditional “rich” Northern VA neighborhood barely appreciated from 2000 to 2018, but prices for houses in areas that were more affordable to begin with have exploded.

Re: California population declines for first time in more than a century

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This can only happen if the upper middle class people move away from somewhere else. There has to be some limit to how far away they'll commute to get access to suburban houses, right?

This makes the question of how much covid-era remote work will remain remote (particularly for the highest-paid employees) particularly urgent.

I'm probably wrong about everything. But to me: remote work explains why houses in, like, Idaho might get more expensive. But if you're going to live in Chicagoland or in DC metro, there are big advantages to living close to the center, even if you don't have to commute; all the good restaurants are there, all the shows are there, public transportation is better, and so on.

Re: California population declines for first time in more than a century

#499
post #461

i was born and raised in california. i left a year ago for the midwest. the situation in california is depressing. and im not talking about human poop or homeless people. im talking about jobs, culture and general lifestyle. california is filled with lots of very ugly urban wasteland. its filled with lots and lots of very disadvantaged people, hordes upon hordes of people who might not be homeless but are involved in…

Seems to me like you’re simply describing the average person.

if you measure accurately enough there is a lot of variation in those qualities from one person to the next.

Re: California population declines for first time in more than a century

#500
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fire season is more like hell on earth than paradise, unfortunately.

The primary reason we have a fire season at all is that we don't let people build housing in California's existing cities and towns, and so instead they sprawl out into fire-prone areas requiring long-distance power lines. https://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/news/release/wui-interface-intermi...

Fire is a part of the lifecycle of many of the plants native to California. If power lines didn't spark fires, something else would (lightning if nothing else).

That said, power lines do have a tendency to spark fires in remote areas on the windiest days, which is not ideal. But eliminating power lines still wouldn't eliminate brush fires.

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