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Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

brookings.edu

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Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#281
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a software engineer in a EU country, you're definitely not a classically rich person. In USA, maybe? In EU not so much. There's so many professions (quite common at that) that earn more, or even much more than us.

Why aren’t software engineers valued more in EU?

Why are software engineers valued so highly in California?

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#282
post #56

This book argues actually its western countries like UK, US, and FR that benefit as rulers buy London, Paris or NYC flats in the names of offshore companies. https://www.amazon.com/Dictators-Without-Borders-Power-Centr... Personally I think the correct response is to tax things rich people like in those countries. Specifically housing, high end cars etc. Putting beneficial owners on real estate makes total sense.

The book looks interesting but I'm not a fan on the spin you're apparently putting on it.

The London real estate market and maybe real estate dealers perhaps benefit. Most citizens of UK don't benefit from parts of London being actually empty for purposes of investment.

The recycling of third world dollars back to the West has been ongoing since the "patrodollars" of the 1970s. Those who get a piece of those dollars benefit, the average citizen Western nations haven't benefited from the tremendous economic imbalance this has created.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the best lie ever told, "don't worry, these taxes wont affect YOU!". Every new tax inevitably falls onto the middle class, because they can't hire people to restructure their wealth and the poor pay no taxes. Lower taxes makes it less expensive for the rich to pay the government. Look at housing and food costs to see how the middle class are affected, they don't get welfare, social housing, or food stamps.

>Every new tax inevitably falls onto the middle class, because they can't hire people to restructure their wealth and the poor pay no taxes. That might be true of new taxes/tax increases created by those doing the bidding of the truly wealthy. In fact, it is true. But that's true of all possible new taxes, and increasing taxes on those with earned income over $400k will have ZERO impact on those who earn less (in ter…

I guess my point is those $400K+ people will have more incentive to avoid the taxes, and when theres a shortfall ... the fed will move to taxing the next group down $400K -> 200K -> 100K -> 50K, etc.

We should put effort into compliance, instead of increases.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#284
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Owns a reasonable home in a decent school district with a commute around 30 minutes. Eats out a few times a month. Takes 1-2 vacations a year. If upper middle class, savings adequate to gradually upgrade housing, send kids to University of State, etc. If regular middle class, home will be maintained against entropy and kids will take out student loans. Either way, will retire at the usual time. In some places $400k c…

> In some places $400k can give 8 families this life. In others not even one. It depends. Can you name a place, anywhere in the world, where $400k/yr is not enough to survive for one family?

inside a volcano

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#285
post #3

>> the customers of offshore banks are likely to be from the wealthiest segment of whichever society they come from. What a surprising discovery. Governments with the most abusive tax policies still cannot realize that they cannot tax their way to prosperity. Most creative and productive people, entities and businessed did, do and will use any tools at their disposal to escape barbaric tax racket and turn their atten…

Do you think there's any level of taxation where a wealthy individual wouldn't want to do some "tax avoidance" in another jurisdiction? I suspect there is not.

Direct taxation.

Run on a road or highway? Pay a toll. Run a container through the ocean? Pay a fee for protection. Want to have nicer neighborhoods with better maintenance? Pay higher property taxes to your municipality.

You can't escape direct taxation. And as long as you keep competition between companies, municipalities and jurisdictions; the system will balance itself where individuals will pay what they are comfortable with by their own volition.

The current system is broken because a small bureaucratic minority has too much power over your own property (they can seize your property/money at random). It's also too easy to get popular votes and people onboard with it (free healthcare for everyone!).

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, but there are many more mid-six-figure earners who don't have >$10M in household net worth. And if you tax mid-six-figure earners, you get them, too. If you want to target wealth over $10M, tax wealth over $10M .

Are you excluding primary residence? A lot of paper millionaires due to lucky real estate

How many not-otherwise-rich people have primary residences worth $10 million? I'm going to guess "not very many".

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#287
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Owns a reasonable home in a decent school district with a commute around 30 minutes. Eats out a few times a month. Takes 1-2 vacations a year. If upper middle class, savings adequate to gradually upgrade housing, send kids to University of State, etc. If regular middle class, home will be maintained against entropy and kids will take out student loans. Either way, will retire at the usual time. In some places $400k c…

> In some places $400k can give 8 families this life. In others not even one. It depends. Ummm, where exactly in the world is $400k per year not enough to survive? Monaco? If you earn $400k year after year, then you are earning enough to be "rich". But true, it's still possible to live beyond your means regardless of how much you earn and incur financial difficulty.

There’s a wide world between “survive” and the lifestyle I described. A wider universe between that lifestyle and “rich.”

In San Francisco it's just about striking distance to the lifestyle I described. The commutes and the housing are generally a little worse.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#288
post #19

If you want more insight into this with less pejorative language, ditch the ICIJ and the Brookings study and look at KPMG, Deloitte and PwC annual reports on the offshore industry. The also know what they are doing instead of trying to reverse engineer it like these studies are.

Is there some sort of issue with ICIJ reporting?

Yes. Over time they've balanced out their reporting by at least acknowledging legitimate uses of tax havens, and even going as far to point out that it is probably the predominate use of tax havens - compliant to all countries involved. But their headlines still lead their readers towards assuming impropriety. And now that they bother to acknowledge the existence of legitimate uses, given the ongoing criticism from anybody educated in the financial sector, they don't bother with the advantages or "the why". They could educate, but choose to only raise awareness towards the assumption of guilt for using leading and competitive jurisdictions. They just instigate populist sentiment and make a tally of the few people adversely affected due to the populist sentiment after being doxxed, alongside the different and fewer people that actually broke their country's laws.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top 1% pay 6x more tax than the bottom 50%! It's obscene how much they pay and how a small group of individuals is forced to carry the entire country. Much, much more should be expected from the bottom 50%.

I am sorry for being rude but this comment is borderline idiotic. Do the words 'top' and 'bottom' perhaps mean something? Have you ever bothered to look at the distribution on wealth and income? The top 1% has more more wealth than the bottomn 50%, it is impossible for the bottom to contribute more than the top

  "it is impossible for the bottom to contribute more than the top"
Maybe the explanation for your sarcastic questions and rude tone is that you think this strawman is reflective of something I've said.

What I'm hoping for is a significantly more equitable contribution of the bottom 50 percent to broader society than what they're currently contributing. Something like a flat tax rate and a reduction in entitlements, perhaps, but I don't have conviction on the exact specifics.

Re: Evidence from leaked account data on how elites use offshore banking [pdf]

#290
post #56

This book argues actually its western countries like UK, US, and FR that benefit as rulers buy London, Paris or NYC flats in the names of offshore companies. https://www.amazon.com/Dictators-Without-Borders-Power-Centr... Personally I think the correct response is to tax things rich people like in those countries. Specifically housing, high end cars etc. Putting beneficial owners on real estate makes total sense.

The book looks interesting but I'm not a fan on the spin you're apparently putting on it. The London real estate market and maybe real estate dealers perhaps benefit. Most citizens of UK don't benefit from parts of London being actually empty for purposes of investment. The recycling of third world dollars back to the West has been ongoing since the "patrodollars" of the 1970s. Those who get a piece of those dollars…

I think they agree with you. Beneficial ownership is a legal term. Putting beneficial owners on real estate means not letting buyers hide their identities with shell companies.
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