How pharmaceutical companies find sick users on Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: How pharmaceutical companies find sick users on Facebook

#111

Post by dhimes » Fri, May 07, 2021, 1:13 PM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #48

CapriciousCptl wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, it's legal to advertise drugs directly to patients. There's not a lot of places in the world where it happens, I'm assuming Scandinavia is one of them.

One particularly funny side effect is that the narrator needs to read out a comprehensive disclaimer. I was once on holiday and with US TV, and saw a few times an ad for performance enhancement for older gentlemen. The ad showed an older couple, who first are not very happy, then much happier with each other, frollicking in the long grass and disappearing off shot etc. While that was happening, the narrator was readi…

It reminds me of the "Happy Fun Ball" ad parody on SNL years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmqeZl8OI2M

Re: How pharmaceutical companies find sick users on Facebook

#112

Post by refurb » Fri, May 07, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #88

naturalauction wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patients and doctors need to know about a medicine to prescribe it. In order to increase brand awareness, drug companies can either advertise to or incentivize (free trips to conferences, consulting gigs) doctors to prescribe a drug or get patients to directly ask their doctor for a drug.

Few new drugs get invented each year and most are either slight modifications to existing drugs or highly specialized. Doctors can easily keep up with zero advertising needed. Drug companies advertise to convince doctors that drug X is better than it actually is. Which is obviously bad for patients who are better served by an objective approach to prescription drugs.

I’ve interacted with a lot of doctors in my job and no, most doctors aren’t that aware. You’ll get the doctors involved in research who know all about the drugs years before they are approved, but those are a handful. Like most people who have jobs you focus on the here-and-now and while “yeah I’d love to read up on that new drug, but I don’t have time”.

I worked on one drug where we had to go to and tell them to stop buying it (they were still buying lots and if they return it a year later it would mess up our accounting) because there were far superior drugs available. We’re talking malpractice not to use the new drug. They thanked us for letting them know.

Re: How pharmaceutical companies find sick users on Facebook

#113

Post by joncrane » Fri, May 07, 2021, 1:24 PM UTC

jack_pp wrote: post #110

cebert wrote: post #92

I can relate to this from my personal experience of having a sick family member. Five years ago, my father-in-law was diagnosed with Multiple Myeloma, a rare blood cancer. I was close to him and joined several support and information pages on Facebook. Since doing that, I see ads on Facebook and elsewhere targeted to me as if I too had cancer. Now my father in law has passed, yet I still see ads that remind me of the…

Have you tried telling Facebook to not show you these ads through the 3 dot menu in the top right? I don't go on Facebook much anymore, just curious

Ironically, you are helping Facebook when you do this. Their algorithms get tuned by users saying they don't want certain ads.

This is why I stopped doing this on Instagram.

Re: How pharmaceutical companies find sick users on Facebook

#114

Post by spaetzleesser » Fri, May 07, 2021, 1:28 PM UTC

CapriciousCptl wrote: post #44

moksly wrote: post #7

“If you’re a drug manufacturer looking for patients”. Maybe I’m just too Scandinavian to understand, but wouldn’t it be the other way around? Now I also wonder if I should see a doctor. I’ve been getting a lot of “is your will in order” commercials from law firms on Facebook recently. I sure hope big tech advertising doesn’t know something I don’t.

In the US, it's legal to advertise drugs directly to patients. There's not a lot of places in the world where it happens, I'm assuming Scandinavia is one of them.

As far as I know direct to consumer drug advertising is allowed only in New Zealand and the US. In most countries it’s illegal.

Re: How pharmaceutical companies find sick users on Facebook

#115

Post by travisporter » Fri, May 07, 2021, 1:37 PM UTC

nkrisc wrote: post #66

rich_sasha wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One particularly funny side effect is that the narrator needs to read out a comprehensive disclaimer. I was once on holiday and with US TV, and saw a few times an ad for performance enhancement for older gentlemen. The ad showed an older couple, who first are not very happy, then much happier with each other, frollicking in the long grass and disappearing off shot etc. While that was happening, the narrator was readi…

It’s bizarre even as an American who is used to it. The most amusing thing is they’re clearly running out of good ideas for names. The names are getting stranger every year. They’re basically just gibberish now.

Otezla (O-Tesla pronounced) for arthritis. No ac current involved

Re: How pharmaceutical companies find sick users on Facebook

#116

Post by TchoBeer » Fri, May 07, 2021, 1:48 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #60

okareaman wrote: post #56

I like targeted ads. I just wish they were better. For example I am open about being in recovery for alcoholism on FB but they still show me ads for hard liquor.

I'm afraid you might not be seeing beyond the first-order effects: "ads are annoying, relevant ads are less annoying, therefore I like surveillance!" Consider all the implications that ubiquitous surveillance by unaccountable private entities carries. Plus, the fact that you can advertise extremely harmful drugs such as alcohol (or gambling) at all, not to mention do so precisely to those you figure are more suscepti…

>Consider all the implications that ubiquitous surveillance by unaccountable private entities carries

I've legitimately never seen an implication other than "I'm uncomfortable with it" that isn't illegal.

>Plus, the fact that you can advertise extremely harmful drugs such as alcohol (or gambling) at all

Yeah, advertising those things at all should be illegal.

Re: How pharmaceutical companies find sick users on Facebook

#117

Post by Uberphallus » Fri, May 07, 2021, 1:50 PM UTC

danpalmer wrote: post #99

Uberphallus wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And nowhere in the article it's said that they use sensitive health information.

A distinction without a difference. I suspect that this is how Facebook justify some of these things. They don't explicitly provide data, anything that advertisers choose to intuit from data is up to them. But I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding (or unwillingness to understand) privacy. Privacy needs to be treated like a security concern. It basically is one. In security any place where more information is…

> They don't explicitly provide data

Because first and foremost, FB doesn't have explicit health data.

> If there's a correlation between likes and health concerns that allows for statistical inferences about users health, that's a security flaw.

Then any information is a security flaw.

Just being male/female or age alone allows for significant inferences about users' health. Not many 18 year old women are gonna click on those prostate exam ads. Similarly, those interested in body building probably won't be interested in "fat burning" pills, and those following transgender-themed pages are gonna be more interested in HRT ads.

Re: How pharmaceutical companies find sick users on Facebook

#118

Post by meowster » Fri, May 07, 2021, 1:50 PM UTC

SargeZT wrote: post #47

dave84 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I visited the US a few years ago it seems like every TV ad break there was a "Feeling X, ask your doctor about Y". Where X was some generic condition like bloating or feeling old, and X was a brand name prescription drug.

I can categorically say that is untrue. While not a fan of direct pharmaceutical marketing, the FDA has strict rules about what needs to be in an advertisement. Chiefly, it must address: * At least one approved use for the drug (the actual medical condition that it has been tested for) * The generic name * Nearly every side effect the drug can give you. There are some side-rules on that one.

How can you categorically say that is untrue while not providing any evidence to the contrary, but in fact confirm the other person's observations?

Essentially: they said commercials have A and B, you said that's untrue because comercials have to have A, B, and C.

Re: How pharmaceutical companies find sick users on Facebook

#119

Post by fighterpilot » Fri, May 07, 2021, 1:52 PM UTC

yarcob wrote: post #108

fighterpilot wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a government that enables it, it's a government that enforces it through laws that guarantee and endow a local monopoly. Whenever you have an endowed monopoly without substitutes, you have extremely high prices. It's econ 101 and will happen 100% of the time (that's why I call it enforcement instead of enablement). If the government just got out of the way, the price of insulin would plummet .

What's stopping US companies from competing based on price? There's multiple producers of insulin in the US. Why do you need a foreign company to undercut them? If an international market would fix it, why doesn't the national market fix it? Why doesn't one of the US companies charge less than the others?

Because of price fixing among the 3 big insulin providers, which is only possible in an environment where competition is heavily constrained by monopoly powers (or in this case, oligopoly powers) endowed by governments through the patent system.

If we have an international free market that encourages 10+ competitors that aren't banned from producing insulin due to patents, then price fixing becomes impossible.

So if government just got out of the way (in this case - patents and banning imports), you could import cheap insulin from anywhere and the problem would be completely solved.

Re: How pharmaceutical companies find sick users on Facebook

#120

Post by nceqs3 » Fri, May 07, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

entropyie wrote: post #64

isaacremuant wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ireland is extremely for profit in everything they do and very poor compared to many places in Europe in terms of response and quality. People just assume a lot about the world.

I don't think it's fair to put Ireland in the same category as the USA here: 1. Zero ads for prescription medication anywhere 2. Medical card for everyone on low income covering everything 3. Never pay more than EUR114/month for prescriptions, no matter how much you medication you need or your income. I've never had doctors pushing any kind of medication on me or my family.

Poor people in the US also get free everything...