Why People Feel Like Victims • Hacker News Board

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#251

Post by breakyerself » Fri, May 07, 2021, 5:16 AM UTC

tasogare wrote: post #236

breakyerself wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Systemic racism isn't intentionally deceptive. It's self explanatory, but just like anything the more you investigate the more layered and multifaceted it becomes. For me it's 3 main things. 1. The way historical oppression can set a group behind another group even after any specific policy has been repealed. Poverty is often a cycle that can go on indefinitely for generations especially depending on things like upwa…

"Systemic racism" is a conspiracy theory. It is a very convenient term because it is not disprovable easily yet allow to make a whole group of people responsible to all the problems of another one.

It's not easily disprovable because all the evidence supports its existence. I see identical criticisms of global warming. Which is so difficult to disprove on account of all the evidence supporting its existence. It would be easy to disprove either. You would just need the evidence to show they are wrong.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#252

Post by tnzm » Fri, May 07, 2021, 5:19 AM UTC

breakyerself wrote: post #226

ne0flex wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you really think that if someone who's unsuccessful because of laziness that if only they hadn't heard about systemic racism they would have a better work ethic? In the case of that particular individual I'd say it's less laziness and more of systemic racism being deterrent to attempt self-improvement. In the "even if I try, I won't get ahead because these systems will hold me back" sense. The point I was trying…

There is something to be said about demotivation and dispair. As someone who also spends a lot of time thinking about global warming there is a tendency to have bouts of feeling doomed here and there. It's not unjustified, but it also does no good. We need the information so we can solve the problem. We just need to learn to process it in a healthy way. I would just say that anyone who claims they won't get ahead eve…

>I would just say that anyone who claims they won't get ahead even if they try because of systemic racism is being ignorant. They might have to try harder than a white person would. They might face some adversity, but there really is no excuse for not trying. It would literally perpetuate the problem.

Not only does systemic racism exist, not only has the environment succeeded in inducing a victim mentality in this person, you are now blaming them for it? Classical "pull yourself by your bootstraps" bullshit. Do you really not see how dehumanizing your viewpoint is, and how such attitudes help perpetuate that person's inaction?

>As someone who also spends a lot of time thinking about global warming there is a tendency to have bouts of feeling doomed here and there.

Not to belittle your own existential fears, but feeling doomed due to global warming at least doesn't make you feel like there's something wrong with you in particular.

It's strange - people with a victim mentality are victims of their victim mentality. It's recursive and self-fulfilling, and it does take some amount of bootstrapping - which is, however, perfectly impossible in the absence of a bootloader and someone to push the power button.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#253

Post by giantandroids » Fri, May 07, 2021, 5:23 AM UTC

US tech appears rife in this right now. I follow lots of engineers on twitter and some folks seem to spend more time enrolled in their own victimhood or the victimhood of others who cause they love to rally to (because they get to point victims and their own invented perpetrators). I often want to point this out, but I would risk losing my job.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#254

Post by toomuchredbull » Fri, May 07, 2021, 5:23 AM UTC

breakyerself wrote: post #144

exporectomy wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of just saying systemic racism exists, why not point out examples? Then people can judge for themselves what effect it may have on them instead of feeling like there's this oppressive "other" which is the cause of anything they don't like about their life and there's no point struggling against it because it'll just crush them anyway.

This list is more tailored to highlight systemic racism in criminal justice, but the economic side is just as important. There are much higher levels of poverty in black communities and that can be directly tied to the fact that in many ways black people were systematically prevented from building wealth for most of US history while white people were provided trillions of dollars in government subsidized economic opp…

Number 2 for instance, is such a small chance it is not really worth mentioning. I believe white people get hit by lightning something like 6 times more likely than blacks and it happens way more than being unarmed and shot by police.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#255

Post by bourgwaletariat » Fri, May 07, 2021, 5:25 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #155

rednerrus wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing but I have girls. I don't want them growing up with the locus of control outside of themselves. The studies are convincing that that is the worst thing you can for a child.

I'm a woman and in some sense I had sort of a sheltered childhood. I was one of the top students in my graduating high school class and I had a lot of firsthand experience with being taken seriously, having my opinions respected and feeling just as entitled as anyone else to speak my mind, etc. And then I became an adult and life did not go how I thought it would and I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what we…

> long after it's become obvious that the person in question is simply abusive and taking advantage.

Do you consciously notice this change in your own perspective? In real time?

I only do this in retrospect. I can look back and see the thing that should have been obvious, but wasn't at the time. All the red flags.

I have found my ability to detect them has accelerated and my tolerance for them has declined.

We are supposed to be tolerant, work hard, do more, stay late, go the extra mile... and, as you said, it's taken advantage of.

At some point, I realize people are taking advantage of my good nature. And so then I just walk away.

But I wish I could not feel bad about it. Guilty somehow.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#256

Post by toomuchredbull » Fri, May 07, 2021, 5:28 AM UTC

danShumway wrote: post #178

prestigious wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Systemic racism no longer exists or at least I’m completely unaware of it. I find proponents of this theory like people who believe in big foot. Somehow he’s out there but they have zero evidence for it

Other people have linked direct stats in this thread, and I encourage looking around at them. But also, just think about your theory in the abstract for a second. Less than one full generation has passed since redlining was made illegal. It's been less than 60 years since segregation was ruled illegal across the board. Do you really believe that the entirety of society has been reshaped in that amount of time and eve…

I've never been in a room on a hiring committee where they were like, you know what? let's give this white guy a chance. I have been in the room where were like, let's give this minority an extra chance literally dozens of times. I find it very hard to believe that there is an elaborate rouse being played on me personally and that despite not knowing any single person who would actively discriminate against someone, it is everywhere and omnipresent. Do some racists exist? Sure. Are there enough to create this environment where it is a major problem for minorities? No. No way.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#257

Post by [deleted] » Fri, May 07, 2021, 5:29 AM UTC

breakyerself wrote: post #171

nverno wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"systemic racism" is intentionally deceptive language. I think you'd be hard-pressed to constructive uses of this jargon where people are actually trying to solve specific, well-defined problems.

Systemic racism isn't intentionally deceptive. It's self explanatory, but just like anything the more you investigate the more layered and multifaceted it becomes. For me it's 3 main things. 1. The way historical oppression can set a group behind another group even after any specific policy has been repealed. Poverty is often a cycle that can go on indefinitely for generations especially depending on things like upwa…

[deleted]

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#258

Post by ixacto » Fri, May 07, 2021, 5:37 AM UTC

ziml77 wrote: post #163

rednerrus wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing but I have girls. I don't want them growing up with the locus of control outside of themselves. The studies are convincing that that is the worst thing you can for a child.

If this can be taught to children then it absolutely should be. Feeling like nothing is under your control is guaranteed to lead to stress and anxiety.

CRT teaching and COVID-lockdown related psychosis is going to lead to more adolescent health crises e.g. Columbines than we can imagine.

This is going to cause issues with a whole generation of kids until we realize the damage it’s done and ban it.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#259

Post by breakyerself » Fri, May 07, 2021, 5:39 AM UTC

tnzm wrote: post #252

breakyerself wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is something to be said about demotivation and dispair. As someone who also spends a lot of time thinking about global warming there is a tendency to have bouts of feeling doomed here and there. It's not unjustified, but it also does no good. We need the information so we can solve the problem. We just need to learn to process it in a healthy way. I would just say that anyone who claims they won't get ahead eve…

>I would just say that anyone who claims they won't get ahead even if they try because of systemic racism is being ignorant. They might have to try harder than a white person would. They might face some adversity, but there really is no excuse for not trying. It would literally perpetuate the problem. Not only does systemic racism exist, not only has the environment succeeded in inducing a victim mentality in this pe…

It's true that if a black person gives up without trying because they assume they can't succeed then their failure contributes to the inequality between the races. I'm sure I could have put it better. I was most concerned about pushing back on the notion that this subject should be taboo because somehow discussing systemic racism is the real cause of inequality.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#260

Post by tolbish » Fri, May 07, 2021, 5:39 AM UTC

esyir wrote: post #240

breakyerself wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There needs to be nuance for sure. People are still responsible for their own actions and the only way to guarantee you wont succeed is to not try. At the same time there is systemic unfairness both in the legacy of racism that has created inequality and in how society operates to this very day and I don't know how you solve those problems if you don't address them. The status quo is not acceptable to myself or a lot…

You're missing the point. The current narrative of systemic racism and the victimhood culture it creates isnt helping, it's exacerbating the issues and reinforcing itself. By conditioning people into believing that an outside force is the primary, if not only factor impacting their lack of success, you demotivate them from trying to adjust other factors that could improve their situation. The issue isn't that we addr…

Wouldn't it logically follow that issues of systemic racism are a bigger problem than the narrative of systemic racism? Can't that be true without being a brainwashed white guilted liberal?