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Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

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Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#271

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You should try it just to test it yourself. I get a different burger maybe once or twice a quarter to see how they stack up. Some of them I wouldn't know it was veg if someone else ordered it for me. Legitimately that good. I've also had some terrible ones too, not sure if it was due to the prep work vs the 'meat' itself. For now the price is always 25% higher which keeps me away from being a regular, but I expect th…

Did you saw their pack of ten burgers? $1.60 per burger, it's dirt cheap! https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/06/17/cheaper-burgers-li...

Price per patty is a strange metric. I get that they're prepackaged in patty form but the competing "traditional" product is ground beef which is typically sold in price per pound.

Ground beef is readily available at sub-$3/lb. Plant-based ones like Beyond are over $6/lb. So Beyond is more than twice the price of ground beef.

It gets even worse if you compare it against what I imagine is the most popular meat sold today, chicken breast; that's $1.75/lb in value stores like Sam's Club but is often on sale for less, around $1.50/lb if you pay attention to weekly ads[0]. So in that respect, Beyond meat can be more than four times as expensive!

That may not mean a whole lot to many on this site who are earning six figures but for everyday folks it's a large consideration.

[0] https://circulars-prod.cpnscdn.com/pdf-cache/Randalls/21_14_...

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#272

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Not sure this is true if you're looking at free-range though. There are many places which are not very amenable to growing crops fit for human consumption, but are more than adequate for growing the grasses (and more) that ruminant digestive systems (e.g. cows) can easily digest. So if you're growing soy on deforested land as a base for your "cruelty free" burger, it is very possible that this has damaged the origina…

> Not sure this is true if you're looking at free-range though. There are many places which are not very amenable to growing crops fit for human consumption, but are more than adequate for growing the grasses that ruminant digestive systems (e.g. cows) can easily digest. Exactly. It's not like animal husbandry and meat-eating developed as some kind of ostentatious wasteful consumption. It's a way of converting inedib…

If you live in the US 90% of the meat you eat was raised in factory farms and fed farmed grains not forage.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#273
post #196

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For my part, I enjoy fast food burgers (think Wendy's, Burger King, etc...). These burger patties are not exactly rare Kobe beef. Once you put that thing on a bun, add cheese, slather it in sauce, etc... I don't find the difference in the patties very noticeable. I notice how fresh the lettuce is more than the patty. I eat plenty of meat, so I don't have an anti-meat agenda. But, for me, for fast food burgers, I may…

The nutritional profile of a fast food beef patty is actually quite excellent, especially once you factor in the cost. The same cannot be said of the fake meat alternatives.

Nutritionally meat alternatives stack up well against fast food beef. With the added benefits of fiber and lack of cholesterol and saturated fat. The costs have to do with scale and government incentives. Plant protein is clearly cheaper to produce than animal protein.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#274
post #235

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If you watch the footage of pigs being half-stunned, throats slit, and then drowning in a vat of hot blood, and can earnestly tell me you don't see that as cruel, I promise you I will never make that argument again.

As if that were the only way to slaughter an animal.

It’s how virtually all factory farms do it, which is the vast vast majority of meat that human beings eat. We should make sure we’re comfortable with it before saying it’s humane.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#275
post #162

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Not everyone agrees with you that raising a farm animal and killing it is in and of itself a form of violence. Certainly many forms of factory farming are absolutely abhorrent and should be eliminated, but saying that what many farmers who raise cattle, chicken, pork and a variety of animals, and do so with respect and care are engaging in a form of cruelty and violence is not an opinion everyone shares. An animal li…

Do you still think that if it applies to someone nurturing a dog to adulthood, and then stunning it, slitting its throat, and drowning it in hot blood water? Would you still accept that as the Way Things Are?

I think bringing up dogs is very interesting. Certainly in much of the Western world there is a cultural association between dogs and humans so that presenting that scenario suggests that the dog was likely killed for some kind of senseless or sadistic purpose, after all why would someone just decide to randomly kill a dog?

But plenty of Asian cultures do exactly that, they raise dogs to adulthood, and then kill it and eat that food, and while it may seem repulsive to our culture that's most likely due to different customs rather than due to logical arguments that differentiate between dogs and pigs.

So to answer your question, in principle it absolutely applies to dogs and the Asian cultures that raise dogs and then kill them and consume them is not really any different from Western cultures that raise cows and kill them and consume them.

Maybe to turn the question back to you on the subject of dogs. If I owned a dog as a pet and fed my dog food I purchased from the pet store (as opposed to letting it hunt for food around my neighborhood), am I doing something violent and potentially unethical because dogs eat meat and I purchased meat for my dog that was farmed? I agree this is an absurd scenario, but if your position is that a human killing an animal is intrinsically violent always and in and of itself, then you must conclude that anyone who owns a pet that consumes meat is also supporting a violent and immoral practice, and yet I doubt most people would be willing to stretch their definition of violence to that degree.

In my opinion your scenario is evidence that many of our perceptions on this issue are influenced not by an objective sense of morality and an extensive consideration of ethics, but an emotional and cultural feeling that we are predisposed towards, and then moral justifications are derived after the fact. Furthermore there is emerging evidence that vegetarianism is often not an ethical choice, but a matter of food preference that like many other food preferences, has genetic roots. Some people are just predisposed genetically to favor a vegetarian diet, and it's not like someone would consciously know that their food predisposition is genetic, as if some kind of message would indicate it to them, so I wouldn't be surprised if many vegetarians rationalize their choice by saying it's an ethical decision, when it's mostly a genetic decision.

That said, that doesn't invalidate arguments against killing animals anymore than my predisposition to enjoy eating meat justifies killing animals, but it does shed light on the nature of this argument and that our choices on this issue are not based on reason, however much we may wish they were.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#276

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My interpretation was more: nature doesn't have morality, animals don't have morality, other animals aren't worried about killing each other, the only reason we are worried about it is because we are projecting the horror of death that comes from being a cognizant being onto animals that are unlikely to even have a concept of "death", so it's not a moral conundrum for an animal that has evolved to eat meat (humans) t…

This is kind of it. I also find it a frustrating American-centric/urban-centric point of view that 'killing animals is bad', when I (among others) have grown up in areas where it's a basic part of life to farm/hunt meat for survival.

I think that’s because the American urban centric view looks at where the meat comes from in the US and it’s not equivalent to hunting on a farm. It comes from factory farms that are pretty sickening when you see videos and pictures. Sure maybe some folks in rural areas or hunters are similar to what you described but 95% is factory farms in US supermarkets.

Also part of the point is that in this culture it’s not for survival. If you need it to survive that’s a different story and not what most people dislike. However US consumers have a choice, so why not make the best of it. Choose meat from sustainable farms or just avoid it.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#277

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> is they require no violence against animals. And you wonder why people can't take absolutists seriously. The marketing power of the moral superiority concept is no new thing. Pivoting the crux of success of your ideology around an incredibly poor burger filling makes no sense either. In the UK restaurants are being allowed to reopen in 10 days. In London there are an incredible density of steak restaurants which ha…

It is not squeamishness. I have killed animals for food with my own hands and being part of people killed in war. I would like to not do it when I have the opportunity.

I have killed animals for food with my own hands and don't mind the process. Worst, I prefer a 1000x killing my own food rather than buying highly pre-processed industrial food of dubious quality (and manufacturing process).

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#278

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> they require no violence against animals. While I sympathise with the argument, I think that it's a mistake to push this aspect front and centre. There's a whole lot of people out there who simply like eating meat, and that it means killing an animal is not particularly a problem. The people I've spoken to about Beyond/Impossible and similar fake-meats all tend to think of it as something for vegans/vegetarians, be…

I think the best angle is the one given in the title: 90% less greenhouse emissions, 99% less water, and 93% less land. This is an approach that provides compelling meal options in a manner that scales much better than our traditional livestock methods.

I disagree actually - I think the animal suffering morality angle is the best argument for most people (as long as it's done in a way that isn't too adversarial).

Most people don't care about the environmental costs, we do lots of things that have environmental effects because we like them and think it's worth it.

Impossible and Beyond, while good, are still noticeably worse than beef to me. The animal suffering bit makes me accept that it's worth it. The environmental use isn't as compelling (imo).

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#279

Beyonds sausages imo are much better than their burger. Impossible is the real burger king in this category

Tbh I prefer Gardein's more traditional soy-based burger in this category. Grills up more nicely imo. I agree that Beyond's sausages are good. Even the fast-food version that Dunkin uses on their sausage McMuffin clone comes out well (they have both meat and Beyond versions). I'm split on Impossible. The fake blood really weirds me out.

Re: Beyond Meat’s Beyond Burger life cycle assessment (2018)

#280

While it is not my experience at all, I understand that some folks have certain negative opinions of Beyond Burgers, and other fake meat/imitation burgers: - The texture is off - Maybe they cook strangely - Potentially less taste But the most important thing about them, and the reason I urge everyone to at least _try_ Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. This is not an argument that fairs well…

> Beyond Burgers, is they require no violence against animals. I find this interesting, in that cropping has plenty of violent against animals but one step removed. I have a small cattle property, we run on hill country with diversified ecosystem, mixed grass and bushland. We have a heap of native animals living across the property. And at the end of the day the steers do get sent of for slaughter after 18 to 24 mont…

You make an interesting point I have not considered before. I think it analogous to the argument that even electric cars have emissions, as almost all of them are charged on grids that are dirty. I personally think in both cases (vegetarians, electric car drivers), the first order benefit of not directly eating animals or burning gasoline exceeds the second order harms. Plus, one can pressure local utilities/politicians to clean up their electricity or only purchase from farms that do the least animal harm (though it's hard to entirely avoid).

Also not trying to have a go at you, thanks for the insightful comment.

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