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Starting a crypto project

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Re: Starting a crypto project

#211

Post by wmf »

Kiro wrote: post #188
pjc50 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You dont need a token. No, really you dont. Your tokens only use case is likely to transfer value Other way round: transferring value to yourself is the only use case . If you take a second to look in the mirror and see the wreckage of previous startups in this space, you'll see that - as pointed out in the OP thread - 99% of the community is there for the pump and dump. For all the practical purposes, distributed…

HN's hypocrisy: constantly complaining about centralisation but dismissing attempts of freeing people from said centralisation at the same time.

In practice, crypto does not free people from centralization. That's one of the problems highlighted by this thread.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#212

Post by wmf »

ghayes wrote: post #81
noxer wrote: post #61

Here is a free tip if you want to do it anyway. DON'T CREATE ANOTHER F**ING TOKEN! Build you product on an existing reliable fast and cheap blockchain that fits your needs. Focus on the product not the price of tokens on said DLT. You dont need a token. No, really you dont. Your tokens only use case is likely to transfer value and guess which token can do this better than yours? All of them! Simply because they alrea…

Another good example would be a project like Uniswap on Ethereum that existed for a long time without a token. To your point precisely, Uniswap v1 was similar to the Bancor project but explicitly removed the token/tokenomics. The simplified launch made the protocol better for both them and their users.

Didn't Uniswap get eaten by others precisely because the others could use their tokens to create usage incentives?

Re: Starting a crypto project

#213

Post by jude- »

chrisco255 wrote: post #200
jude- wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unspoken truth here is that defi tokens all worthless until you cash out, and that leaves a paper trail. Hope you paid your taxes on those trades!

I'm not cashing out, I'm staying in the Ethereum ecosystem for good. And no they're not worthless. USDC for example, is literally exchangeable for $1. I can literally take out a six figure loan against crypto holdings and buy a house with it. I can also pay off high interest credit card debt and earn yield at the same time. All the other tokens are liquid and exchangeable 24/7.

> USDC for example, is literally exchangeable for $1.

Thank you for reaffirming my point! The purpose of defi is to re-distribute dollars from people buying in to people cashing out, while providing literally no other goods or services. It's not like people want these tokens for other purposes -- you buy them so you can sell them to subsequent participants.

Despite the deceptive machinations of defi, the act of selling out leaves a paper trail that exposes you to liability for income taxes, capital gains taxes, and (if you wrote the token code) securities regulations. But I have some good news: if you live in the US, you at least have until May 17 to file your quarterly estimated taxes.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#214

Post by saalweachter »

ww520 wrote: post #112
golergka wrote: post #35

Reading that twitter thread, and HN discussion here, I am again reminded how the whole startup scene looked before dotcom crash: insane valuations, lots of scammers, and what little utility there is, it's mostly for illegal means. (If you're saying that there's no real utility in Bitcoin, you really should google Hydra). But don't you wish you bought Amazon stock right after IPO?

Good point. But for every Amazon back then there were hundreds of Pets.com.

Don't forget the corollary: when do you wish you sold the Amazon stock you purchased at IPO?

Re: Starting a crypto project

#215

Post by e12e »

jaggs wrote: post #193
arcticbull wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't you think there are tons of people out there who would rather not annoy their visitors with ads? No, I don't. I mean I think they would if it didn't cost them anything but I firmly believe when given the decision between being vaguely annoyed by ads vs. ponying up the cash, they'll do the former substantially all the time. Nick Szabo has a great paper on it. [1] Trust me when I say this is almost certainly th…

Cough...Patreon.

Patron kinda proves the point that no-one wants micropayments (and that small/threshold payments work fine in a centralized system)?

Re: Starting a crypto project

#216

Post by jude- »

arberx wrote: post #198
jude- wrote: post #196

He forgot a point: exchanges are the house, and the house always wins. Want your token to be traded on an exchange? You'll pay a fee, you'll do all the integration legwork for them pro bono , and then they'll skim money off of all the trades on your token in perpetuity.

Thankfully there are now DEXs which are super cool. uniswap.org

Thank you for reaffirming my point! If you want your token traded on uniswap, you'll write the integration code pro bono, you'll pay a fee (a transaction fee to deploy it), and Ethereum miners (who run uniswap) skim transaction fees off of your token trades in perpetuity.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#217

Post by wmf »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

Can confirm. I’m friends with a group of very smart distributed systems engineers who were excited to launch an actually useful crypto project that gets talked about here from time to time. As much as they’re excited about the technology itself, very few people are actually interested in using it. Instead, their business seems to revolve around the value of the utility tokens for their project. Few people are buying…

Few people are buying the utility tokens to pay for the service. They’re buying them to hoard so they can resell to other speculators

That's not a utility token. If you want to create a true utility token, make it stable and you won't have to worry about speculation.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#218

Post by zaphar »

noxer wrote: post #192
arcticbull wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds not very compelling. Id rather give Netflix $50/mth and not worry about any of that. [edit] not to mention, content creators don't price their movies in dollars per byte haha, they price it based on what they think people will pay. This is part of the reason all you can eat is much more enjoyable.

I think you didn't get the bigger picture. Its not for streaming a movie is for everything on the web. Why would you pay 50 for Netflix if you can just consume content wherever you want for 50 bucks instead. They can still offer you a flat rate if they want. The option to pay what you use doesn't take the option to pay upfront or whatever away. There is no doubt they will lure you into using the same service somehow…

This conversation is odd. Someone says there are no real world use cases. Someone else says yes there is and poses one. Former person points out that in fact that example just makes their point for them. The counter is well there has to be some use case because there are theoretically an infinite number of them. We just have to find one from that set.

This example right here. It presumes that content creators will happily just bypass distributors like Netflix. I find that unlikely because it ignores what Netflix actually provides for content creators.

1. Funding in some cases.

2. Discovery and a ready audience.

3. Availability of content to your audience.

Content creators have little motivation to not use Netflix or Disney+ or whatever other service. Those services have little motivation to use crypto streaming payments. And frankly most consumers don't care enough to create an incentive for the creators by voting with their wallet.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#219

Post by wmf »

jude- wrote: post #216
arberx wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully there are now DEXs which are super cool. uniswap.org

Thank you for reaffirming my point! If you want your token traded on uniswap, you'll write the integration code pro bono , you'll pay a fee (a transaction fee to deploy it), and Ethereum miners (who run uniswap) skim transaction fees off of your token trades in perpetuity.

So clearly every token should have its own exchange.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#220

Post by wmf »

knorker wrote: post #177
ypeterholmes wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really.. most of these companies aren't trying to evade the law- in fact the industry is mostly begging for regulatory clarity in order to be in compliance. Nobody wants to invest millions into something that may or may not end up being designated as illegal.

I actually think that this is at the core of most of these companies. Take anonymous money transfers for any amounts. This is why KYC/AML laws exist. If someone could show how a cryptocurrency with anonymous features can follow KYC/AML laws, I'm all ears. Begging for regulatory clarity makes it seems one-sided. It seems very clear to me that the dream the cryptocurrency companies are trying to sell is fundamentally i…

If someone could show how a cryptocurrency with anonymous features can follow KYC/AML laws, I'm all ears.

Zcash has done a lot of work on this. https://z.cash/compliance/

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