Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Starting a crypto project

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 373 posts

Re: Starting a crypto project

#181

Post by knorker »

vmception wrote: post #174
knorker wrote: post #51

> 9. The LAW. SO MUCH LAW. SO. MUCH. LAW. > 10. There's actually a good chance that there's not a single person in your entire state or country that knows how to do your taxes. And this is because your entire business model is to get around laws that were put in place ON PURPOSE.

Nah. There are really dumb laws that you need a powerful defense or deterrent against. The biggest problem is that you cant talk about them, or even share the deterrents, because it makes you a target for the regulators if you do. Its actually better that the regulators simply know you have a lawyer, and that they have no idea what your legal strategy is. In finance, ignorance of the law is an excuse (“scienter”), th…

You seem to be describing exactly what I said. They are trying to get around the law, and trying to get around the intent of the law.

So the aim is to break the intent of the law. Laws that were put there on purpose.

So I really don't understand what you mean by "nah". It's exactly that. Company sees the law, says "that's dumb, I'm going to break that but in a complicated way" and then does breaks it using what they consider a loophole.

"Nah"? No, you exactly agree.

> In finance, ignorance of the law is an excuse

Yet you can also get convicted for tax fraud without having intent.

And the flip side of what you said is also that (depending on jurisdiction) it can be illegal to do something legal, if your motive was to get around the intent of the law. Using loopholes can be illegal, even though the act is legal.

> This also means that each and every project has to recreate the legal guidance, until Congress explicitly makes a safe harbor route a default regulatory regime.

This is just delusional. I think you forgot who has the guns.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#182

Post by vmception »

RichardHeart wrote: post #96

Add to that: 16.5 You will be demonized by everyone except those that participate in what you build. 17. Every dollar spent on dev didn't 40x in ETH over the last year, or 400x in some other things. 18. Centralized gatekeeping of the "decentralized" projects both in coin ranking sites and exchanges. 19. Constant and never ending copycats and straight scams impersonating your brand. 20. People duct-taping coins onto w…

> Every dollar spent on dev didn't 40x in ETH over the last year, or 400x in some other things.

Yes, but thats why you collect a ton of other people’s money in token sale revenue to begin with!

You have larger than normal overhead costs, but still larger than normal earnings

Re: Starting a crypto project

#183

Post by lottin »

noxer wrote: post #164
reedjosh wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People already pay to not see ads its just cumbersome because every service needs a subscription or pro app or whatever. People will pay if it's a frictionless payment of a small amount reflective of the value gained. Netflix did this with movies, Spotify with music, `crypto with everything?` if the tech and business models are worked out.

Imagine how awesome it would be if you could search for a movie choose the service that current has the best cost/byte ratio for your location (they can make this variable to manage load). Then you start streaming. No registering needed. Not even a login. After 10 min you notice the film sucks so you stop the stream. You only payed for the first 10 min. Totally friction-less ofc. You could watch on a random TV anywhe…

"Streaming money" doesn't sound like sci-fi at all. It just sounds like something I absolutely would try to avoid at all costs.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#184

Post by vmception »

knorker wrote: post #181
vmception wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. There are really dumb laws that you need a powerful defense or deterrent against. The biggest problem is that you cant talk about them, or even share the deterrents, because it makes you a target for the regulators if you do. Its actually better that the regulators simply know you have a lawyer, and that they have no idea what your legal strategy is. In finance, ignorance of the law is an excuse (“scienter”), th…

You seem to be describing exactly what I said. They are trying to get around the law, and trying to get around the intent of the law. So the aim is to break the intent of the law. Laws that were put there on purpose. So I really don't understand what you mean by "nah". It's exactly that. Company sees the law, says "that's dumb, I'm going to break that but in a complicated way" and then does breaks it using what they…

Lets focus on securities laws because as I said tax is solved and not that hard. I’m not talking about tax fraud so lets focus instead of being all over the place:

So basically crypto projects dont mind securities laws, they do mind that the securities laws have lots of unnecessary contigencies added to them that makes it impossible to couple with utility.

If a crypto token actually was a registered security, then nobody could list it because they arent broker dealers. All the partnership projects could not be because the partner would have to be a broker dealer. There would be zero framework to potentially add utility at all, if they complied with laws that didn't consider issued assets existing peer to peer outside of any walled garden. Alternatively, it can exist as a consumer product under the consumer framework, no different than the secondary market for Nike shoes, and thats what people do. Upon asking “how does Nike do it? People can walk in the shoes but many people buy their shoes with an expectation of profit” my securities attorney told me that Nike probably has securities legal opinions too.

Congress and commissioners at the SEC are warm to helping this, you are going to have to retire your talking points to the last decade as the grownups are building and some are representatives.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#185

Post by arcticbull »

noxer wrote: post #142
arcticbull wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The post above has a list of companies who build on top of such a decentral permission-less system that apparently has no benefits. Correct. > Start with coil.com what they do it not possible with the financial system. They enable users to stream money to content creator in real time with fractions of cents per second. A central system would not make any sense. It must be p2p and there must be a ledger to "settle t…

>Any wallet could offer the same thing. No, its not a wallet at all its a protocol like TCP but for money. If you are interested go read about it first. There is no point in arguing about something you dont know what it is. >PayPal could offer it Yes, they could but its not lucrative and if it would be they would not be interested in using a public interoperable protocol where everyone can offer the same service and…

> Don't you think there are tons of people out there who would rather not annoy their visitors with ads?

No, I don't. I mean I think they would if it didn't cost them anything but I firmly believe when given the decision between being vaguely annoyed by ads vs. ponying up the cash, they'll do the former substantially all the time.

Nick Szabo has a great paper on it. [1] Trust me when I say this is almost certainly the only thing Nick Szabo and I agree on.

[1] https://nakamotoinstitute.org/static/docs/micropayments-and-...

Re: Starting a crypto project

#186

Post by noxer »

lottin wrote: post #183
noxer wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine how awesome it would be if you could search for a movie choose the service that current has the best cost/byte ratio for your location (they can make this variable to manage load). Then you start streaming. No registering needed. Not even a login. After 10 min you notice the film sucks so you stop the stream. You only payed for the first 10 min. Totally friction-less ofc. You could watch on a random TV anywhe…

"Streaming money" doesn't sound like sci-fi at all. It just sounds like something I absolutely would try to avoid at all costs.

Well there can still be option to pay full at once. Not quite sure what you gain from this but if you can stream you can also stream all once.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#187

Post by mtnGoat »

noxer wrote: post #128
arcticbull wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not that, there's not a single blockchain based solution that achieves better results than a classical solution. Not a single one. Never has been. Not in 14 years. I'm open to one showing up! But, well, it hasn't. And that's because there's a huge fundamental cost to trustlessness, decentralization and permissionlessness that substantially no project actually benefits from.

The post above has a list of companies who build on top of such a decentral permission-less system that apparently has no benefits. Start with coil.com what they do it not possible with the financial system. They enable users to stream money to content creator in real time with fractions of cents per second. A central system would not make any sense. It must be p2p and there must be a ledger to "settle the transactio…

Re: coil.com, what they do is entirely possible on a centralized system. cam sites have been using token based internal payment systems based on minutes viewed, tips, etc at sub $0.01 levels for 20+ years now. and until the tubes came along, all sides profited handsomely.

source: i helped build some.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#188

Post by Kiro »

pjc50 wrote: post #99
noxer wrote: post #61

Here is a free tip if you want to do it anyway. DON'T CREATE ANOTHER F**ING TOKEN! Build you product on an existing reliable fast and cheap blockchain that fits your needs. Focus on the product not the price of tokens on said DLT. You dont need a token. No, really you dont. Your tokens only use case is likely to transfer value and guess which token can do this better than yours? All of them! Simply because they alrea…

> You dont need a token. No, really you dont. Your tokens only use case is likely to transfer value Other way round: transferring value to yourself is the only use case . If you take a second to look in the mirror and see the wreckage of previous startups in this space, you'll see that - as pointed out in the OP thread - 99% of the community is there for the pump and dump. For all the practical purposes, distributed…

HN's hypocrisy: constantly complaining about centralisation but dismissing attempts of freeing people from said centralisation at the same time.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#189

Post by baby »

fumblebee wrote: post #18

> 2. You aim to build a community, but in reality 90% of your telegram/discord are scammers and people asking why price is going down/accusations that you and your entire team should go to jail. I'm consistently repulsed by the lack of thoughtful discussion in crypto communities. For a space littered with intriguing technology it's endlessly frustrating that there's no HN-like forum. Instead, any community that start…

I’ve been thinking about forking HN to have crypto discussions, I really wish there was a board like this which only talked about technical stuff of crypto

Re: Starting a crypto project

#190

Post by mtnGoat »

golergka wrote: post #35

Reading that twitter thread, and HN discussion here, I am again reminded how the whole startup scene looked before dotcom crash: insane valuations, lots of scammers, and what little utility there is, it's mostly for illegal means. (If you're saying that there's no real utility in Bitcoin, you really should google Hydra). But don't you wish you bought Amazon stock right after IPO?

its very similar.

now, as was then, people are investing in tech they don't understand and in some cases tech that may not even be buildable. :x

Post reply on HN