Live data from Hacker News

Why I Work on Ads

jefftk.com

461–470 of 882 posts

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#461
ads don't fund the open internet, rather it funds the huge valuation of the internet company. Why internet companies valuation is so much higher than the grocery store around the corner? it does not need to be.

I don't hate ads, I don't mind it at all to be honest. I use Instagram just for ads :) Restaurants, hotels, we need

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#462
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed on all of this, + Facebook and Google both ban images of alcohol on their ad networks. Even someone holding a glass of wine.

I'm pretty sure that's not correct. As a counter example I've seen ads for alcohol and bars in my Facebook feed.

Those two are not mutually exclusive. You an ban images of alcohol while allowing adds for alcohol and bars (as long as they don't have images of alcohol.)

I suspect there may different rules for different jurisdictions/markets which might explain differences in your experiences.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#463
I don't think ads fund open internet, it does fund the huge valuation of internet companies though. Why internet company's valuation is so much higher than the shops on high-streets? it does not have to be.

I don't hate ads, they are useful. I use Instagram for ads, I follow restaurants and hotels. They are just some information. But I don't want to be targeted.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#464
I understand many of the problems with targeted ads, because humans’ “idea immune systems” are not great and easily manipulated. However I’ve gotten some targeted ads that I really really loved. One was for a baby plate that can’t be flung on the ground and has saved me at least 50 hours in cleaning through two children.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#465
post #29

The author jefftk is getting unfairly downvoted maybe because cynics just see it as a version of, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." I will offer a contrarian opinion as a user whose salary does not depend on advertising: the advertising model for using Google search and watching Youtube videos works better for me as a consumer . The alternati…

> I don't like ads but they are the most friction-free way to consume a wide variety of content.

That might be true in the beginning but long term ad's add a lot of friction and frustration e.g. having to wait X amount of seconds before getting access to the content.

I have been a YouTube Premium user since day one and I can't imagine not using it.

What I would love to see more is having a choice of having a free ad supported version and the option to upgrade and pay to remove those ads.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#466
post #446
post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FB may do so now but that's only because of lawsuits as recently as 2019. It wasn't something they volunteered to do. But you asked how targeted ads hurt people, and I showed a fairly recent example. Something that wouldn't exist without targeted advertising. How does that not prove my point?

Its not like FB has ever let advertisers "exclude black people" before. The critics said it may be possible that protected categories get less ads for housing, employment, etc due to algorithmic bias. That is a subtle danger, and honestly hard to technically implement at scale, but I think FB has always given a good faith effort in this area.

If by "not ever let advertisers exclude black people" you mean "after March 2019 has not knowing let advertisers exclude black people" than FB and the NYT would agree with you: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/19/technology/facebook-discr...

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#467
post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a Peter Singer rationalization and is essentially another version of the shallow pond parable. Instead of destroying a nice pair of shoes, Jeff is, arguably, making the world worse by working on ads. But he's making it more better by using his salary to help people.

I would argue it's the reverse that's true. He's making it significantly worse than his relatively speaking small contributions make better. If I design advanced weapons, but donate my salary to charity. The good I do is temporary, but the advanced weapon technology can kill, and repress indefinitely.

It seems like it would depend on the details. In your example, I might agree that there is net harm to the world. But in other cases, and maybe Jeff's, the harm done by working on ads may be more than offset by the lives saved.

Since Jeff is a thoughtful guy and this is important to him, I'm inclined to think that he is producing net good. If you can convince him otherwise, he'd probably change what he's doing.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#468

The online ad business generally mystifies me. While an awful lot of the internet, especially the surveillance advertising part, looks to be the greatest misallocation of engineering (and other) talent in the history of the world, ya gotta ask about the efficacy. The only reasonably accurate targeting I've ever run into is the occasional ad for something I just browsed on Amazon. I've never clicked on an internet ad.…

While I personally agree with you when it comes to YT advertising which at times could not be more irrelevant, Google search ads and Facebook/Instagram ads seem to be the place where most money is spend. And in case of Google search the whole thing is basically a prisoners dilemma. You and your competitors are probably among the first results for the relevant keywords anyway and could save a lot on advertising if none of you advertised. But once a single competitor starts buying ads the whole sector has to move until the expense on Google ads is equal to the former profit margin. This in turn leads to monopolization as only the competitor with the highest profit margin at baseline will still be making a profit. It’s hard to believe that Google pushing its apps and a single search/navigation bar on users is but an attempt to get businesses to pay for results they would already rank pretty well for, thereby diverting the profit of entire industries to Google and not offering any benefits to users.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#469
> The question is, what is the alternative? I see two main funding models: / Paywalls. You pay with your money. / Ads. You pay with your attention.

There's also the alternative-which-must-not-be-named, which is non-regressive and frictionless: socialism. You pay with money, through taxes.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stalking is the problem, but the ads are too. Ads have been a problem well before tracking was a thing. Since at least the 1920s (I’m thinking of Edward Bernays but there are probably earlier examples) the goal of advertising is to manipulate consumers into making irrational decisions. The majority of ads make us feel inadequate to get us to buy something, like the only the thing that will make us whole is a new…

> The majority of ads make us feel inadequate to get us to buy something I know it's hard to disprove but I don't think adverts have that effect on me, partially it's because I don't see many adverts and partly because that kind of blatant manipulation is so hilariously blatant. I acknowledge that someone might be running a really effective advertising campaign on me but since I basically don't buy anything I don't a…

Even if you think you are immune, you probably agree ads attempting to psychologically manipulate people into buying a product are unethical?
Post reply on HN