Why I Work on Ads • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#221

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:39 PM UTC

supersrdjan wrote: post #45

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd work on advertisements for high six figures. That being said, I'd also be a terrible culture fit in an advertising shop. I can't stand ads and a hobby of mine is criticising the ads, and companies, forcing me through them for the duration thereof. >I must be fun at parties Parties with ads, or any paid "guests" are not fun...

What are your most frequently recurring points of criticism and what type of ads you find elicit the least criticism?

That's a question I want to get paid six figures to answer.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#222

Post by burkaman » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:39 PM UTC

fxleach wrote: post #179

omginternets wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The author jefftk is getting unfairly downvoted maybe because cynics just see it as a version of, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." I don't think that's why people are downvoting. Speaking for myself, it's because his analysis focuses only on the benefits of ads, and conveniently ignores the actual ethical problems ( e.g. large-scale collect…

It seems like you didn't bother to read the entire article because the author does go into the ethical and privacy related concerns about ads. It is always interesting to read about people's opinions on topics such as this, and the fact that you dismissed it outright with such ignorance as to call it a bad-faith argument tells me you are not open to hearing opinions that differ from your own. As a result, a downvote…

There is no mention of ethics, and the privacy discussion ends with "I don't think my work in advertising is something harmful to offset." The author seems to think there are some good ideas to increase privacy that he is working on, but the existing problems are not serious enough to be considered "harmful".

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#223

Post by jjj1232 » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:39 PM UTC

elliekelly wrote: post #88

jasode wrote: post #29

The author jefftk is getting unfairly downvoted maybe because cynics just see it as a version of, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." I will offer a contrarian opinion as a user whose salary does not depend on advertising: the advertising model for using Google search and watching Youtube videos works better for me as a consumer . The alternati…

I find the "ads are useful" argument frustratingly disingenuous. It's a transparent and deliberate attempt to move the discussion away from what people actually take issue with in modern internet advertising - tracking and data collection - and instead tries to frame it as something far more benign. The ads. Aren't. The problem. The stalking is. Ads can be useful. But no one is saying they aren't! So why is it consta…

The stalking is the problem, but the ads are too. Ads have been a problem well before tracking was a thing.

Since at least the 1920s (I’m thinking of Edward Bernays but there are probably earlier examples) the goal of advertising is to manipulate consumers into making irrational decisions. The majority of ads make us feel inadequate to get us to buy something, like the only the thing that will make us whole is a new instant pot or whatever.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#224

Post by the_snooze » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:40 PM UTC

exhilaration wrote: post #182

mrblampo wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The medium doesn't allow for stalking. Huh. Are you sure? I don't know anything about how podcast advertising works, but it sounds like you're assuming the full audio track, complete with ads, is the same everywhere and always.

Relevant: Spotify will use everything it knows about you to target podcast ads https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/8/21056336/spotify-streaming...

Spotify is a bit of an oddball in the podcast world in that they're an all-in-one closed platform with a player and a production arm. They can easily feed user behavior data back to their podcast producers and advertisers.

Most podcasts and players operate on RSS feeds though. While they can very well target things via IP addresses and user-agent (no getting around that), podcasters and their advertisers don't have the capability to read/write persistent tracking data on the client, at least as far as I know. An advertiser would be hard-pressed to see that I personally listen to Stuff You Should Know and This American Life, even if the advertiser had contracts with both. The medium really hobbles how much tracking can be done.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#225

Post by jefftk » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:40 PM UTC

weasel_words wrote: post #197

redleggedfrog wrote: post #8

That sure sounds like appeasing guilt with charity donations.

...and good old fashion virtue signaling https://www.jefftk.com/donations imo, honest hearts never need to publicize their altruism to the world.

Completely disagree: https://www.jefftk.com/p/make-your-giving-public

Publicizing altruism helps build a culture of altruism.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#226

Post by twox2 » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:40 PM UTC

stevenicr wrote: post #193

cm2012 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen any evidence of anyone hurt by the large scale collection of personal data by Google and FB.

small data points from here compared to the big lot.. friend unsure about her marriage.. getting ads to sell her wedding ring via fbook.. they divorced 2 months later. Guess what the first thing she did was? A friend's father.. gambling addiction and an android phone - sleeps on the streets and eats via dumpsters, still keeps that addictive android device running. Google sending data on people to fusion centers.. may…

IMO these are weak examples.

- Are you suggesting that your friend got divorced so that she could sell her ring, because an ad told her she could sell her ring? I doubt that was the straw that broke the camels back.

- The android phone has utility beyond it's addictiveness. Yes homeless people need a phone.

- Re fusion centers: ads targeting data is a relatively shitty surveillance too, the three letter agencies have much better ways of collecting this data.

- Targeted alcohol advertising I'll agree is an issue, but if you're an alcoholic, you can't really escape the ubiquity of alcohol everywhere.

I think the adverse privacy impact of targeted advertising is pretty overblown, but it so happens that ad targeting is so effective it has the illusion of being surveillant. The actual data being collected is anonymized and not personal.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#227

Post by supermatt » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:40 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #29

The author jefftk is getting unfairly downvoted maybe because cynics just see it as a version of, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." I will offer a contrarian opinion as a user whose salary does not depend on advertising: the advertising model for using Google search and watching Youtube videos works better for me as a consumer . The alternati…

I’m sorry, but the reason he is getting voted isn’t “ads vs no-ads”, it’s the inability to acknowledge that ads are not the problem.

Ads are fine. Stalking people to “optimise” those ads isn’t.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#228

Post by fsflover » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:40 PM UTC

elliekelly wrote: post #88

jasode wrote: post #29

The author jefftk is getting unfairly downvoted maybe because cynics just see it as a version of, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." I will offer a contrarian opinion as a user whose salary does not depend on advertising: the advertising model for using Google search and watching Youtube videos works better for me as a consumer . The alternati…

I find the "ads are useful" argument frustratingly disingenuous. It's a transparent and deliberate attempt to move the discussion away from what people actually take issue with in modern internet advertising - tracking and data collection - and instead tries to frame it as something far more benign. The ads. Aren't. The problem. The stalking is. Ads can be useful. But no one is saying they aren't! So why is it consta…

> The ads. Aren't. The problem. The stalking is.

But what about the manipulation?

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#229

Post by ma2rten » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:41 PM UTC

omginternets wrote: post #13

I'm always surprised that someone would go through the trouble of justifying their involvement in something prima facie unethical -- in writing, no less -- and fail to address the actual ethical issue. As other have noted in comments, the problem is not with advertising in general, but with the specific way in which Google advertises. I have a hard time believing the author is unaware of this, so I'm left wondering:…

Have you considered that people might have different world views?

Some might find

1. all advertising unethical

2. targeted advertising unethical

3. not consider advertising unethical

4. consider the product that is being advertised

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#230

Post by noir_lord » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:41 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #29

The author jefftk is getting unfairly downvoted maybe because cynics just see it as a version of, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." I will offer a contrarian opinion as a user whose salary does not depend on advertising: the advertising model for using Google search and watching Youtube videos works better for me as a consumer . The alternati…

There is a middle ground.

You advertise to me, You don't track every single fucking thing I do online to do it.

If we agree to that then I'll turn my adblocker/pi-hole off - otherwise enjoy the null-hole.