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Why I Work on Ads

jefftk.com

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Re: Why I Work on Ads

#41

Post by omginternets »

jasode wrote: post #29

The author jefftk is getting unfairly downvoted maybe because cynics just see it as a version of, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." I will offer a contrarian opinion as a user whose salary does not depend on advertising: the advertising model for using Google search and watching Youtube videos works better for me as a consumer . The alternati…

>The author jefftk is getting unfairly downvoted maybe because cynics just see it as a version of, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

I don't think that's why people are downvoting. Speaking for myself, it's because his analysis focuses only on the benefits of ads, and conveniently ignores the actual ethical problems (e.g. large-scale collection of personal information).

In other words, I see no fresh insight and perspective in jefftk's writing, and worse still, it bears remarkable semblance to a bad-faith argument. I'm sure he is a decent person (really!), but this particular essay is neither interesting, nor particularly respectable IMHO. As a result, a downvote feels appropriate.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#42

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

ksec wrote: post #19
jasode wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't know many people who think advertising per se is morally objectionable Lots of people do. E.g. the first user feedback comment in that article: "Advertising is bad because it’s fundamentally about influencing people to do things they wouldn’t do otherwise. [...]" And every HN thread about advertising also has a variation of that sentiment.

>This article is really attacking a straw man. I wish that was the case, but it is not. >And every HN thread about advertising also has a variation of that sentiment. And it is not just on HN, but across the Internet. Reddit, Forum, Twitter. Their voice are crystal clear, All ads are bad. And any objection will.... well you know the internet. It is the same with tracking. Somehow all tracking are bad on the internet.…

You're dismissing the reasoned arguments against the fundamental value proposition of advertisements without argument against the reasons themselves, which is essentially flamebait.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#43

Post by ksec »

jasode wrote: post #29

The author jefftk is getting unfairly downvoted maybe because cynics just see it as a version of, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." I will offer a contrarian opinion as a user whose salary does not depend on advertising: the advertising model for using Google search and watching Youtube videos works better for me as a consumer . The alternati…

There are plenty of good ads. And Ads is also news in a sense, it is there to solve discovery problem. Just like your $10 ticket to see all the latest wares, which are all Ads.

We know what bad ads are, not in terms of ads quality but the amount of tracking and personal information gathered and sold across different companies.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#44

Post by rpicard »

Just wanted to mention I appreciate seeing a different perspective here.

I know there's a lot of negative reaction to it, and I can empathize with that because there's a long history of negative behavior by the advertising industry. But there's no doubt that there are benefits too, and seeing some nuance on HN is always a win.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#45

Post by supersrdjan »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #26
coldtea wrote: post #3

Because of the salary?

I'd work on advertisements for high six figures. That being said, I'd also be a terrible culture fit in an advertising shop. I can't stand ads and a hobby of mine is criticising the ads, and companies, forcing me through them for the duration thereof. >I must be fun at parties Parties with ads, or any paid "guests" are not fun...

What are your most frequently recurring points of criticism and what type of ads you find elicit the least criticism?

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#46

Post by gorpomon »

jefftk wrote: post #22
redleggedfrog wrote: post #8

That sure sounds like appeasing guilt with charity donations.

I started on ads at Google in 2017, and have been donating since 2008: https://www.jefftk.com/donations

Jeff have you ever considered giving to specific people? It's quite ridiculous that college costs what you might give in a year, but $264,727 could concretely allow several people to attend college each year (state schools, community colleges, etc). Or how about removing bad debt, letting people rebuild their credit and start to save. I can think of myriad reasons why this is harder and less desirable (finding them, funding them, ensuring it has real impact, etc). But curious what your take on this would be.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#47

Post by mdavis6890 »

ipaddr wrote: post #39
jasode wrote: post #29

The author jefftk is getting unfairly downvoted maybe because cynics just see it as a version of, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." I will offer a contrarian opinion as a user whose salary does not depend on advertising: the advertising model for using Google search and watching Youtube videos works better for me as a consumer . The alternati…

The outcry would be huge if everything went to a pay model.

You're right - but I find that strange. Most of us are not angry about the pay model for groceries or haircuts. A smaller - but still large - fraction of us are okay paying for other zero-marginal-cost goods like software as well. I wonder why we are so attached to free content online. Maybe because of the historical television model that's been mentally transferred to the internet?

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#48

Post by wink »

lupire wrote: post #25

People wo believe that "tool makers aren't responsible for how the tool is misused" (for example, with cryptocurrency), do you feel the same way about adtech?

As much as I hate to defend adtech, I think it's unfair to generalize a whole industry.

A company I worked for was more in the business of improving targeting. Of course people will argue if targeting demographics is bad per se, or better or worse than other parts, but I personally don't care if I get generic ads or ones tailored to me. So for one of our main product, we were reselling and integrating some data for a bigger player, as in, we were 1 of many data points determining if the ad would be interesting for the person who would see the ad or if they'd give them another one.

Yes, it kind of gets into this angle of privacy and user tracking... but I'm ok with the scope we did it in and I thought hard about if I can accept this without a guilty conscience - but for example I'd never knowingly work on trying to bombard the user with even more ads, or popups, or whatever - but just saying "ads shouldn't exist" is maybe aspirational but sadly I don't see it as a valid version of reality in the foreseeable future.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#50

Post by pydry »

lupire wrote: post #25

People wo believe that "tool makers aren't responsible for how the tool is misused" (for example, with cryptocurrency), do you feel the same way about adtech?

Legally it makes a big difference whether a tool is designed with the specific purpose of being abused or whether it is incidental.

I think morally that's correct as well.

Cryptocurrency is a weird one you bring up coz I don't think anybody is proposing hunting down and jailing Satoshi even if they think Bitcoin ought to be banned.

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