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How Basecamp Blew Up

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Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#931

Post by [deleted] »

banannaise wrote: post #905
JPKab wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no idea how much software I ship, but like your ideology, you make assertions without data. You act as if the only people who are killed by police are "one of my brothers and sisters". Let's unpack that, shall we? https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ Roughly 3/4 of people killed by police in the US are not one of your "brothers and sisters" if by "brothers and sisters" you are referring to humans who share you…

> See Daniel Shaver, who was recorded on camera being executed, unarmed in his underwear, begging for his life, by a psycho cop. Literally the only substantial voice that stood up and went to bat for Daniel Shaver was BLM. You're right, police violence is far from isolated to Black people. Most BLM activists would agree that stopping police violence has multi-racial benefits!

[deleted]

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#932

Post by wrycoder »

javagram wrote: post #793
luxuryballs wrote: post #762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never seen any indication that Donald Trump is racist, how can it be “well established”?

Donald Trump attacked an American-born judge and said he couldn’t be impartial because he had Mexican ancestry https://time.com/4356045/donald-trump-judge-gonzalo-curiel/

Trump criticized the judge because he was a La Raza supporter. Trump felt the judge could not be impartial because of that, not because the judge was of Mexican extraction.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#933

Post by ksec »

jarek83 wrote: post #832
igneo676 wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately, no, they're not "bad guys" in the sense that they're irredeemably evil. Unfortunately, the current situation certainly paints them in the "extremely foolish or downright spiteful" territory Once a harmful set of actions comes to light, it's your job as the leadership team to: 1. Apologize 2. Correct the wrong 3. Allow your employees the space to process and heal a. Note: People are messy. Especially hurt…

Are you past or present employee? If so, then you probably know better, but I can only response to what I know, and I was never related to Basecamp. What you say is correct in really bad situations. Thing is, that I have trouble to see real issue in what has happened here. It somehow feels surreal that DHH and Jason were able to fool us all for years, and now it seems that they are being accused of almost being hosti…

Was it his first job?

>Not sure it was noticed, but DHH hasn't tweeted once in May

It was definitely VERY noticeable, considering the case EPIC and Apple is going on right now.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#934

Post by [deleted] »

banannaise wrote: post #905
JPKab wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no idea how much software I ship, but like your ideology, you make assertions without data. You act as if the only people who are killed by police are "one of my brothers and sisters". Let's unpack that, shall we? https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ Roughly 3/4 of people killed by police in the US are not one of your "brothers and sisters" if by "brothers and sisters" you are referring to humans who share you…

> See Daniel Shaver, who was recorded on camera being executed, unarmed in his underwear, begging for his life, by a psycho cop. Literally the only substantial voice that stood up and went to bat for Daniel Shaver was BLM. You're right, police violence is far from isolated to Black people. Most BLM activists would agree that stopping police violence has multi-racial benefits!

[deleted]

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#935

Post by [deleted] »

banannaise wrote: post #905
JPKab wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no idea how much software I ship, but like your ideology, you make assertions without data. You act as if the only people who are killed by police are "one of my brothers and sisters". Let's unpack that, shall we? https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ Roughly 3/4 of people killed by police in the US are not one of your "brothers and sisters" if by "brothers and sisters" you are referring to humans who share you…

> See Daniel Shaver, who was recorded on camera being executed, unarmed in his underwear, begging for his life, by a psycho cop. Literally the only substantial voice that stood up and went to bat for Daniel Shaver was BLM. You're right, police violence is far from isolated to Black people. Most BLM activists would agree that stopping police violence has multi-racial benefits!

[deleted]

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#936

Post by Traster »

gustavo-fring wrote: post #785
Traster wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the thing you need to content with is the fact that when someone says the Republican party uses racism to win votes what they're doing is linking you to a wiki page with long and detailed documentation of the specifics of what they're doing and how. Now, in response to that you sort of just wave around and claim all parties use racism. But that's not actually true is it, there is no similar concerted strategy…

Nobody linked to that here, they made a lot of vague assertions. But you could, yes, and I'm sure that wiki page would be much easier to source than with the Democrats, because there are more people (many more) using overt racism in the Republican party today. That's still not an actual response to what I posted, it is what we all know to be whataboutism. Nobody wins by playing the "they do it, too, but better" card.…

Literally the first person who replied to you linked to the wiki page about it.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#937

Post by ksec »

throthro111 wrote: post #160

I feel bad for everyone involved. This story made me realize that working at Basecamp is not something I would want to do in the future, primarily because DHH and Fried are so egotistic. However, it also makes me face the reality that I would not want to work with many of the people that resigned. Resigning over a random employee refusing to say that "white supremacy exists" is absurd. I imagine myself working at som…

>When I talk to my family and non-tech non-coasts non-city friends about the sort of political polarization I encounter at my high-tech Seattle job, they often think I'm messing with them, that I'm being facetious or exaggerating.

Finally! I have been pointing this out as being mostly a tech circle thing. But almost every time I get downvoted for it.

The question here is, why Tech? What is specific about Tech as an industry, and that is not just in US, it is also spreading in UK, ( or mostly English speaking countries ). I assume it has something to do with Social Media. But then other industry also have access to social media usage as well.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#938

Post by asabjorn »

comte7092 wrote: post #928
throwaway789256 wrote: post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With that framing, the perception of whether the list was racist does matter as it explains their motivation. I don't think we know their true motivation. Anyone can claim to perceive something as racist. We cannot control their sense of offense. The act they claim to be racist may or may not be racist. But what advocates of critical race theory have found is that, by claiming that something is racist, they can bri…

You claim not to know their true motivation, yet your entire argument relies on the assumption that they had malicious intent. You also note that “the act they claim to be racist may or may not be racist” and yet it is clear that you have assumed that it is not throughout your post. And this is the crux of the issue. Ones entire interpretation of these issues relies on whether or not one believes racism exists as a s…

> You claim not to know their true motivation, yet your entire argument relies on the assumption that they had malicious intent. You also note that “the act they claim to be racist may or may not be racist” and yet it is clear that you have assumed that it is not throughout your post.

The person(s) that attacked Singer used social justice activist techniques, claim of and demand for denouncing "white supremacy" in order to reduce a viewpoint opponents moral authority, where "white supremacy" uses the social justice unstated redefinition of the colloquial term to mean "policy or habitual behavior that could perpetrate outcomes not in alignment with social justice dogma".

This activist technique is a kafka trap with no good answer. Keeping that in mind its pretty clear where the accuser comes from.

As a side-note: a discussion/debate between viewpoint opponent break down if serious accusation are made without evidence, and a healthy discussion and work environment need to exclude such bad actors. Kudos to basecamp and coinbase for adopting policies that discourage such behavior.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#939

Post by notSupplied »

MattRix wrote: post #707
rsyring wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguments from silence are, by definition, illogical fallacies. There could be any number of reasons why someone might choose to remain silent. It's possible they are endorsing it, but you don't really know without additional statements or context. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argumen...

If someone asks you “do you denounce white supremacy?”, and you stay silent… many people (myself included) would see that as a form of endorsement. I don’t need any additional context, and I don’t see it as being any kind of logical fallacy.

So, do you denounce white supremacy? If you said yes, what if they followed up with the following questions:

- What have you done to fight it? - Have you donated to XYZ org? - How much? Why not more? Surely you could afford it? - How much time have spent volunteering for causes that fight it? - How much? Why not more? Surely you could afford it?

If you anticipated this line of questioning would follow, where the person asking the question's intent is to test you, and shame you if you were to fail it, would you still engage with that question?

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#940

Post by majani »

andrewmd5 wrote: post #887
JPKab wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no idea how much software I ship, but like your ideology, you make assertions without data. You act as if the only people who are killed by police are "one of my brothers and sisters". Let's unpack that, shall we? https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ Roughly 3/4 of people killed by police in the US are not one of your "brothers and sisters" if by "brothers and sisters" you are referring to humans who share you…

See, all you have to do is push people who claim to want an apolitical workspace just a little to get their real views to surface. Enjoy your sad, weird life https://andrew.im/

Maybe address the fair points raised rather than demonizing the other side?
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