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On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

residentcontrarian.substack.com

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Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#981

Post by dang »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #237
benlivengood wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the bay area there are plenty of cuddle parties for platonic physical touch. Feminism has a pretty convincing answer to the problem like I edited my original comment to include. Toxic masculinity is the social exclusion of deep emotional relationships between men, including the "suck it up" culture. The key is that only men can really participate in that healing because it's entirely a problem between men…

So feminism's answer to the the problem is "cuddle parties"? Are you serious? I remember people used to argue that feminism was good because sexual liberation of women meant everyone was gonna get to have lots of sex. Obviously, these incels were not invited to the party. Women are having lots of sex, just not with them. And you actually believe "deep emotional relationships between men" are the cure for this unrest?…

Jumping on somebody like that is seriously not ok on HN, and breaks the site guidelines badly ("Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.").

Taking the thread noticeably further into ideological and gender flamewar, as you did here and elsewhere, is also not ok.

You posted tons of flamewar comments in this thread. We ban accounts that do that. Please stop and don't do it again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#982

Post by dang »

birdyrooster wrote: post #114
benlivengood wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the bay area there are plenty of cuddle parties for platonic physical touch. Feminism has a pretty convincing answer to the problem like I edited my original comment to include. Toxic masculinity is the social exclusion of deep emotional relationships between men, including the "suck it up" culture. The key is that only men can really participate in that healing because it's entirely a problem between men…

Feminism is a front for white supremacy

Would you please stop posting ideological flamewar comments to HN? We ban accounts that do this. Actually I just banned your account, but decided to unban it after looking a little bit closer. If you keep posting like this, though, we're going to have to.

We want thoughtful, substantive, curious conversation here, not bomb-throwing, fights to the death, and whatnot. You've posted a lot of serious flamebait. Please review the site guidelines and stop doing that. Note this one: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#983

Post by watwut »

defterGoose wrote: post #958
watwut wrote: post #955

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is massive difference between fantasy and reality. Afaik, what people watch in porn is not the same thing they want in real life. People love to read and watch game of thrones. But, in real life, they make torture illegal and demand democracy instead of loyalty to lord. So confusing.

This is all highly reductive. Not sure what you're basing your assumption about porn on. If you're not turned on by something in real life why would you seek porn based on it? There are plenty of people who long for a life of riding around on a horse swinging a sword at things or exploring the outer reaches of space on a futuristic craft. On the contrary; I'd say that the fiction that people select is highly correlat…

> There are plenty of people who long for a life of riding around on a horse swinging a sword at things

Those things are people. And contemporary equivalent of those are soldiers who joined one of guerrillas or some such. People who read those books dont go after those experiences.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#984

Post by parineum »

CRConrad wrote: post #944
parineum wrote: post #859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, I think the internet's connection is causing the problem on both ends of the phenomenon. Dating apps allow women to expand their dating pool to people they would never encounter in everyday life. I have quite a few female friends and I've been around them while they're swiping around and they are absolutely brutal in a way that's not at all malicious. Then the regular (male) losers in that system can then…

> I have quite a few female friends and I've been around them while they're swiping around and they are absolutely brutal in a way that's not at all malicious. Depends on how you define "malicious", doesn't it?

I just mean that they're saying "no" to the slightest thing. And, really, they have to do that for time purposes. It's just kind of shocking how selective they can be and still be successful.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#985

Post by piva00 »

poisonarena wrote: post #879
piva00 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think this is a very Americanized perspective, though, so I would be especially interested in hearing perspectives from other cultures. I agree this is very Americanised, I can chime from two different perspectives and cultures: Brazil and Sweden. Brazil is... Very Americanised, I believe that the same issues the USA has with sex are present in Brazil, it's expressed in some different ways but the underlying issu…

I totally disagree with your view on Brazil, I have had lots of dates with many kinds of women and lived in Rio Comprido, and had a long term relationship and many friend in Brazil for a few year and I have found it is very acceptable to have had many partners for young women, and that "overly sexualized" image that is perceived from the outside is for the most part valid and people are much more open with their bodi…

Well, I lived from when I was born up to my 27th birthday in Brazil. I went to school in Brazil, I dated a lot of Brazilian women, I have two sisters in Brazil.

I don't want to dispute your anecdote but I feel I have a bit more hands-on experience with Brazilian society.

Don't compare Carnaval, a one-off whole-nation party week to how society really works on the day-to-day.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#986

Post by danicriss »

InvertedRhodium wrote: post #840
gautamcgoel wrote: post #774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just out of curiosity, which country are you describing?

I can't speak on their behalf, but it sounds like a pretty accurate description of both Australia and New Zealand to me.

As someone living in NZ, I had thought the same in the beginning, until they mentioned corruption being a problem. I'm not saying it doesn't exist here at all, but it's so low it's on the bottom of the list of problems this country has

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#987

Post by JohnBooty »

phkahler wrote: post #915
JohnBooty wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's room for some down to earth, responsible men to try and fill this space. Right now the "teach young men how to be" space is mostly filled with misogyny and terrible pick up artists. Goodness yes. The PUA and red pill communities have absolutely poisoned this space and, at least in America, it's impossible to see how a healthy alternative could even take root. I know that if one sprang up, my first rea…

>> The PUA and red pill communities have absolutely poisoned this space I think the PUA has poisoned the space. TRP concepts I find quite good taken as a whole, but a lot of guys are focused on the wrong things for the wrong reasons. At its core, TRP says to put yourself together and everything else will follow, but the everything else is NOT suppose to be your goal. Some of the ideas there like AWALT are toxic when…

    TRP concepts I find quite good taken as a whole

    [...]

    At its core, TRP says to put yourself together and 
    everything else will follow, but the everything else 
    is NOT suppose to be your goal. 

    Some of the ideas there like AWALT are toxic when 
    taken literally
Is https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/ ("The official subreddit of TRP.RED") representative of the TRP community?

I'm not asking that facetiously. Sometimes an online forum, official or no, is not an accurate representation of a community as a whole.

Anyway, if it is an accurate representation, I would not describe TRP concepts as "good taken as a whole." The vast majority of top-voted posts are super explicitly sexist: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/top/

    Some of the ideas there like AWALT [All Women Are Like That]
Based on what I am seeing, the sexist stuff is not just like, a regrettable undercurrent in an otherwise-helpful self help forum. I mean, it's kind of infused into everything there.

I would most certainly agree with the "get your shit together" elements of TRP, at least. And while I wouldn't be bold enough to call stoicism the one true way, there's a strong stoic aspect to TRP thought and that's generally how I roll. However, that's not some kind of unique TRP concept and there's no real reason to turn to TRP for it unless you really require your stoicism to have a heavy dose of toxic sexism.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#989

Post by decafninja »

Balgair wrote: post #455
spoonjim wrote: post #140

Essentially, what we have right now in the sexual marketplace echoes what we have in the economy... a lot of the sex is being had by a small fraction of the people. The need for sex is perhaps as high as the need for money but nobody talks about this crushing inequality, perhaps because there is no practical way to “tax and redistribute” sex. The problem is worse for men since a man needs a certain set of skills and…

> Essentially, what we have right now in the sexual marketplace echoes what we have in the economy... a lot of the sex is being had by a small fraction of the people. (Emphasis mine) Possibly. DNA analysis shows that for every 17 human females that reproduced, one male reproduced. Meaning that quite high rates of polygamy, rape, or other unbalancing factors were the norm in human history. http://awakeningtimes.com/80…

Don't forget war. I imagine when two groups of humans whether it be two caveman tribes or two Napoleonic armies, massive numbers of young males were killed off.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#990

Post by st1ck »

throwaway1282 wrote: post #841
robocat wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physical sex is not intimacy. Sex work leads to some very strange dynamics, because often the Johns are desperate for intimacy, but they are paying for women that provide zero actual intimacy (because it is usually entirely faked.) I am sure there is some ideal world where prostitution could satisfy emotional needs, but in my admittedly very limited knowledge it doesn't. Prostitution has been legal in my country sinc…

There exists sex work which in places like Japan where the experience is flirting with girls or cuddling. I haven't tried the cuddling thing but I did go to a few girl bars where you pay an expensive cover fee to get in but the bartenders are all pretty girls who will flirt with you. My assumption was that the experience would somehow be cheapened because I was paying for it, but that wasn't the case. I came to the c…

I can't speak for Japan, but in Thailand, Philippines etc. the intent of such girls is to find a long term partner and settle down.
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