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Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

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Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#341

Post by ww520 »

duxup wrote: post #55
aiisahik wrote: post #29

People who think this is predatory have clearly NOT worked in the TV / Film industry. Doing shit jobs for free in the hopes of getting some cred is the norm. Not right but not news. BTW just because it's going to be on Netflix doesn't mean Netflix is the employer. Netflix just buys the content. The staffing / contract decisions are made by the production company.

Even if you're established in your career ... they'll ask you. As Harlan Ellison demonstrates: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE

Wow. That's one good speech from Harlan.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#342

Post by slver »

SirSourdough wrote: post #170
slver wrote: post #132

Everyone is free to want things.

I’m sure lots of businesses want to exploit workers, but that doesn’t mean they should be permitted to. The issue here is Netflix/Kinect being able to act on a predatory want.

Netflix isn't out there kidnapping people to take photos for them for free, so WTH would "predatory" mean.

"Hey you wanna come take photos on a few weddings for a show? We can't pay"

"No"

See? Simple.

That's a normal market. If people wanna do it free, they should be able to. If they don't, Netflix will have to pay someone. Why does anyone else have to get involved here?

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#343

Post by logifail »

anonymousiam wrote: post #96
Kalium wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty common in humanities in particular. It's much rarer in scientific, engineering, or technological fields. As a guideline, if the field has money to go around and companies have to compete for interns, they'll pay. If would-be interns have to compete for a few internships and the field famously struggles with budgets of two beans and a bit of string, they won't.

And here's what you left out: https://www.investopedia.com/netflix-q1-fy2021-earnings-repo... Netflix is rolling in cash.

> Netflix is rolling in cash

Let's say Netflix['s production company] were to auction the opportunity to work with them on this project (for clarity: the winning photographer pays).

Q1: Are we suggesting there would no bidders?

Q2: If "the market fixes stuff" why can't the market fix this?

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#344

Post by walkon »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #108
aiisahik wrote: post #29

People who think this is predatory have clearly NOT worked in the TV / Film industry. Doing shit jobs for free in the hopes of getting some cred is the norm. Not right but not news. BTW just because it's going to be on Netflix doesn't mean Netflix is the employer. Netflix just buys the content. The staffing / contract decisions are made by the production company.

Just because it's the norm doesn't mean it's not predatory.

If someone makes you an offer and you say, "no" and they walk away, that isn't predatory.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#345

Post by anigbrowl »

SirSourdough wrote: post #109
aiisahik wrote: post #29

People who think this is predatory have clearly NOT worked in the TV / Film industry. Doing shit jobs for free in the hopes of getting some cred is the norm. Not right but not news. BTW just because it's going to be on Netflix doesn't mean Netflix is the employer. Netflix just buys the content. The staffing / contract decisions are made by the production company.

I don’t see how the fact that this behaviour has been normalized in a notoriously abusive industry makes it any less predatory... I agree it’s not new but it can still be an important discussion. It shouldn’t continue to happen just because it has been happening.

It is abusive, but the flip side of that is that the barriers to entry are informal. If you can perform and you're willing to work, you can find a way in. If you're good, you'll get other jobs. If you're good and easy to work with, people will come looking for you.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#346

Post by cbozeman »

munk-a wrote: post #250
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No HR person would allow unpaid intern positions in 2021. It's very clearly illegal in the United States. When I mentor college students, the only times we hear about unpaid internships are: 1) Unfunded wannabe startups or small family businesses who don't understand what they need, but they assume they can convince some naive kid to do it for free. No one with actual skills or prospects takes these jobs. Job boards…

Unpaid internships are quite legal in the US as long as the intern is receiving benefits from the arrangement[1] - this means that an unpaid intern running to fetch you coffee and pick up your dry cleaning is almost certainly illegal in the US. Additionally, unpaid internships are extremely rare in technology right now due to the intense market demands - if you dangle an unpaid internship out in the market you're not…

> basically having Game of Thrones on your IMDB page

I'd rather have Alien, but each to their own.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#347

Post by munk-a »

jnsie wrote: post #333
munk-a wrote: post #21

The US continues to support unpaid work in a pretty major way. I think unpaid internships being socially acceptable is one of the roots of this insidious habit. They've been illegal up here in Canada for a while and it hasn't really caused any economic disasters. It'd be a good change to advocate for down there as well. And, honestly, internships aren't free for companies unless there is literally nothing of value be…

> I think unpaid internships being socially acceptable is one of the roots of this insidious habit. I think tipping as a cultural norm is another of the roots. Making it acceptable to move (a large portion of) staff payment from the employer to the customer should never have happened. The toxicity with which people defend tipping culture (in my experience in online forums) is astounding.

I hadn't thought of that but yea I agree entirely. Tipping culture is something that's also really difficult to combat - I feel like it'd require legislation making tipping illegal to actually break the habit since otherwise you're just lowering the waiter's take home.

I will continue to both grumble about how bad tipping is while also tipping constantly since I think it's the only reasonable thing to do.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#348

Post by cbozeman »

reaperducer wrote: post #217
duxup wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think unpaid internships being socially acceptable is one of the roots of this insidious habit. When I worked with interns they were all paid... but every one was more time and expense to work with than any value they provided. In weeks they accomplished what I could do in an afternoon, and we spent WAY more than an afternoon of work with them. Amazingly many seemed to have a very high opinion of their productivit…

every one was more time and expense to work with than any value they provided. I've only had interns at one job, and I had a similar complaint. My boss told me that's exactly what's supposed to happen. He explained that they're not free labor. I'm supposed to be training the next generation of $my_profession, and if they're not getting in the way, I'm not letting them do enough to learn. I guess in some ways he was r…

> I'm supposed to be training the next generation of $my_profession, and if they're not getting in the way, I'm not letting them do enough to learn.

I had intended to say this myself.

Computer programmers rarely train themselves. Very few of anything train themselves. Autodidacts who can become masters of are extremely rare, and even those that have that capability can still pick up a lot of information from someone with decades of experience.

Our species seems to learn best through being taught by those with more experience than us.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#349

Post by bhupy »

simonw wrote: post #229
supernova87a wrote: post #122

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I am feeling chatty today. As long as safety + working conditions are not cruel and unusual, and someone is willing to work for $0, why are you trying to stop (or hide) that fact? Someone willing to work for less (or for free) is offering a bargain to incentivize giving him/her the business or the benefit of experience instead of more $. You restricting them from doing that does…

The problem is that unpaid internships are a big contributor to ongoing economic inequality. In industries where jobs require experience, and that experience can only be obtained through unpaid internships, the end result is that people who can't afford to work for free for several months are prevented from entering that industry entirely.

By that logic, universities are a big contributor to ongoing economic inequality. You spend 2-4 years (at least, more if you want a post-grad) not earning any money, and in fact paying money to get the credentials needed to eventually become gainfully employed.

Internships & apprenticeships serve the same educational function of universities, except you don't have to pay money to get that experience.

In order to be consistent, either we force universities to pay its students, or at the very least encourage companies to start charging interns for the privilege of an internship. Neither option is reasonable.

Re: Netflix's “Love Is Blind” Wants Unpaid Photographer for Five Weddings

#350

Post by kelnos »

walkon wrote: post #344
pavel_lishin wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because it's the norm doesn't mean it's not predatory.

If someone makes you an offer and you say, "no" and they walk away, that isn't predatory.

It is if those are the only kinds of jobs available for people with lower levels of experience.
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