Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

residentcontrarian.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

681–690 of 1001 posts

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#681

Post by GavinMcG »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #597
piva00 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think this is a very Americanized perspective, though, so I would be especially interested in hearing perspectives from other cultures. I agree this is very Americanised, I can chime from two different perspectives and cultures: Brazil and Sweden. Brazil is... Very Americanised, I believe that the same issues the USA has with sex are present in Brazil, it's expressed in some different ways but the underlying issu…

> I was surprised by how many of my girlfriends here had at least one instance of rape or sexual abuse, usually from partners. Same here, absolutely appalling. Whenever I speak about it with guy friends they don't quite believe me and try to rationalise it (which is a common response for me on many topics as well), often by arguing semantics of what is considered rape or abuse etc, or the integrity of the person in q…

I don't think I've ever asked a woman older than her mid-twenties about her experiences without hearing about an instance of assault. Some serious, some not, but universal.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#682

Post by nradov »

MattGaiser wrote: post #288
schnevets wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am frequently surprised by the number of "dead bedrooms" I know about among friends, and I sincerely believe the problem is the western world's secretly coy perception of sex. There is a superficial surface level that is extremely wrong (for example, Successful people have sex, the most successful people have the hottest sex with the hottest partners; Sex isn't about planning it's about letting the desire overcome…

> I am frequently surprised by the number of "dead bedrooms" I know about among friends I originally thought they were mostly an old people thing, but I am hearing more stories about it from friends. And we are mid 20s.

Exposure to phthalates reduces testosterone in both men and women, and thus lowers sex drive. Phthalates are widely used chemicals, primarily for softening plastic.

https://news.umich.edu/reduced-testosterone-tied-to-chemical...

That's not the only cause. Increased obesity levels also play a role. Probably other factors.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#684

Post by kelnos »

nicoburns wrote: post #25
benlivengood wrote: post #4

> I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. I imagine some of these men are similar to me in the loneliness and not as lucky in finding someone, and it’s impossible for me to not feel something. This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy…

> the best explanation that I've heard for the feeling men have of basic unhappiness without romance and sex is toxic masculinity; the general societal rejection of deep emotional relationships between straight men. Lonely? Make strong friendships! Spend your time with other men who like you and enjoy your company and validate you I'm not sure I buy this. I'm a man who has lots of close friendships (many of which are…

Not the parent, but I don't think friends are a substitute for a romantic relationship, but having friends is certainly better and more comforting when you're not in a relationship rather than being truly alone.

Regardless, men in romantic relationships should still be sure to cultivate strong friendships

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#685

Post by vsareto »

phkahler wrote: post #449
colanderman wrote: post #154

I feel a common issue with such "dead bedroom" discussions is the seeming lack of capacity of some parties (including some prominent toplevel comments here) to understand how deep a need for sex many people have. To think sex can be replaced with "strong friendships" is laughable to anyone who actually feels a strong desire for sex. The dead bedroom situations I've seen with my friends (M->F equally as well as F->M)…

>> I feel a common issue with such "dead bedroom" discussions is the seeming lack of capacity of some parties (including some prominent toplevel comments here) to understand how deep a need for sex many people have. When I first saw Maslow's hierarchy of needs sex appeared on it TWICE. Once on the bottom level as a basic physical need (to what extent varies of course) and again I think on the 3rd level or so as a for…

I think I remember something about the bottom level also including solo activities, which makes it much more reasonable as a physical need. The higher level was then intended to be with someone else.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#686

Post by TameAntelope »

belorn wrote: post #661
waterhouse wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> create a feedback loop amongst themselves that results in literally mass murder. I dispute that causation. Mass murderers are extreme outliers that usually have identifiable mental problems, and I would say the primary cause of their behavior is those mental problems, not whatever particular thing they say triggered them. Also, even if you did show that a certain ideological group was significantly overrepresented…

Reminds me of a case here in Sweden where a father was found guilty of attempted murder of his half year old child. Just hours before the attempt he had been at the hospital begging to be committed since he was hearing voices and he was scared that he might hurt someone, but the beds was full so he was sent home. Healthcare for mental health is still very much underdeveloped, especially when the patient is male. It i…

I think that's an extremely interesting take -- that with the advent of the Internet, we've created a vehicle for mental illness to metastasize, and the only real solution is to treat mental illness like we treat malaria or even COVID, and upgrade our global healthcare systems to handle the influx of this "new" disease variant.

The analogy breaks down when you start to try and think of what our "vaccine" might be, though perhaps education can be a rough proxy. It's also possible there's nothing we can do, and we've reached a spread that is incurable...

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#687

Post by ducharmdev »

ethbr0 wrote: post #567
Fargren wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would imply all sexual exclusive relationships are healthy, which is very much not the case. Sexual exclusivity and relationship health are orthogonal.

I think you're taking the set theory a bit too far...

I mean, that is the immediate conclusion one can draw from what you're saying. It sounds like you're saying all sexually exclusive relationships are within the group of healthy relationships, which is different than saying only some of them are within that group.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#688

Post by coldtea »

willcipriano wrote: post #539
Balgair wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing to note is that birth-control may decrease libido in some women. The science is a bit mixed though. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201902... As for the male side of things, I'm not sure if there is a environmental culprit like birth-control.

Antidepressants and antianxiety medications decrease libido as well.

Depression and anxiety even more so, modern work-life balance and social media too...

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#689

Post by schnevets »

rscho wrote: post #636
schnevets wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am frequently surprised by the number of "dead bedrooms" I know about among friends, and I sincerely believe the problem is the western world's secretly coy perception of sex. There is a superficial surface level that is extremely wrong (for example, Successful people have sex, the most successful people have the hottest sex with the hottest partners; Sex isn't about planning it's about letting the desire overcome…

I'll go on a limb assuming you don't have children yet.

I don't. But neither do those friends who speak about sexual incompatibility with the people that they love. Children are a completely new factor that this thread hasn't introduced, and I'm impressed by anyone who can make it work with a toddler. But for the most part, the demographic I'm talking about have no kids, live together, are financially comfortable, enjoy spending time together... and yet don't want to do it for some reason.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#690

Post by daenz »

coronasaurus wrote: post #565
username90 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women have lived longer than men throughout most of history and in basically every society, so your theory doesn't hold. Childbirth was dangerous but men's work was even more dangerous.

Citation needed. A quick Google search on life expectancy during the middle ages tells me that men lived longer than women.

Where do you see that? Every result from my quick searching is listing women as longer than men. Example: https://www.purplemotes.net/2015/08/23/medieval-life-expecta...
Post reply on HN